V-22 Osprey

[Burncycle]

A few V-22 WHIF ideas....

1. Wings removed, conventional helicopter arrangement (main rotor + tail rotor)

2. Engines removed, two turbofans added mid-wing (think S-3 Viking) like a conventional cargo aircraft.

3. Two JSF like fuselages attached to the wings providing VTOL or conventional take off / landing capability

[GTX]

I read recently that they may be looking at re-engining the V-22s.  Apparently the Rolls-Royce Allison T406s have been wearing out faster than expected in operational use. Though this may be simple speculation.

Regards,

Greg

[GTX]

Speaking of V-22 whiffs, anyone remember these:












Regards,

Greg

[Shasper]

No need to decrease rotor blade diameter.  The perfect solution for creating a five blade rotor for the Osprey is to use the rotors from a pair of the Italeri 1/72nd scale RAH-66 Commanche kits on the 1/48th scale V-22 kit.  The five blade rotor is a perfect candidate for improving the appearance of the plain vanilla V-22 kit.

Would this arrangement allow for a conventional rolling TO w/ the engines in the full horizontal position? The current protor setup does not allow for this IIRC


Shas b)

[Jeffry Fontaine]

No need to decrease rotor blade diameter.  The perfect solution for creating a five blade rotor for the Osprey is to use the rotors from a pair of the Italeri 1/72nd scale RAH-66 Commanche kits on the 1/48th scale V-22 kit.  The five blade rotor is a perfect candidate for improving the appearance of the plain vanilla V-22 kit.

Would this arrangement allow for a conventional rolling TO w/ the engines in the full horizontal position? The current protor setup does not allow for this IIRC

Same diameter as the kit rotor, all it does is improve the look of the V-22.  So no rolling take off with this modification. 

[jcf]

Same diameter as the kit rotor, all it does is improve the look of the V-22.  So no rolling take off with this modification. 

Or horizontal flight. 

[Jeffry Fontaine]

A bit of inspiration came to me today as I was approving Kit Spackman's images for his gallery folder.  Great work Kit! 

Anyway Kit had a pair of Pogos in one of the images and I spotted the counter-rotating propellers on the things and immediately thought of the V-22 and how to get around those large diameter propeller-rotor things that are so large in diameter.  Counter-rotating propeller-rotors should work and they would be much smaller in diameter, sort of like an unducted fan or whatever the current buzz word is for that kind of set up.  So who has a brace of Pogos to slaughter for this project? 

[Mossie]

My only problem with contra props is that it would add more complexity to an already very complex beast, one that's suffered because of it.

[PR19_Kit]

Jeff,

Glad you liked the twin Pogos, thanks.

I'm not sure a standard K-P Pogo prop would be anywhere big enough. I mentioned in the caption that I'd had to use the same 4 bladed prop on both a/c in the photo as I'd broken the proper 3 blader for the real Pogo. The 3 blader is quite small and I used a set of modified Beverley props for the Osprey. They were the biggest props I could find at the time, and I reversed the pitch of one half by re-twisting the blades. That's suprisingly easy with the Aeroclub metal props BTW.

Perusing the Aeroclub lists may come up with something better nowadays, as the Osprey was built back in '95. Perhaps a set for a Tu-95 Bear suitably modified? Have to be paddle blades, it just wouldn't look right with curved tips.

The V-22 is just one of those a/c designed to be a Whif, isn't it? Like a Pogo or a Rotodyne, it's in there trying to get out.

[kitnut617]

Perhaps a set for a Tu-95 Bear suitably modified? Have to be paddle blades, it just wouldn't look right with curved tips.

Comparing the 1/72 Tu-95 props with a B-50, there's not a lot of difference in the diameter.  I think you need something from a An-22, in 1/72 these are humungous

[Jeffry Fontaine]

My only problem with contra props is that it would add more complexity to an already very complex beast, one that's suffered because of it.

I'm not sure a standard K-P Pogo prop would be anywhere big enough. I mentioned in the caption that I'd had to use the same 4 bladed prop on both a/c in the photo as I'd broken the proper 3 blader for the real Pogo. The 3 blader is quite small and I used a set of modified Beverley props for the Osprey. They were the biggest props I could find at the time, and I reversed the pitch of one half by re-twisting the blades. That's suprisingly easy with the Aeroclub metal props BTW.

Perusing the Aeroclub lists may come up with something better nowadays, as the Osprey was built back in '95. Perhaps a set for a Tu-95 Bear suitably modified? Have to be paddle blades, it just wouldn't look right with curved tips.

The V-22 is just one of those a/c designed to be a Whif, isn't it? Like a Pogo or a Rotodyne, it's in there trying to get out.

Perhaps a set for a Tu-95 Bear suitably modified? Have to be paddle blades, it just wouldn't look right with curved tips.

Comparing the 1/72 Tu-95 props with a B-50, there's not a lot of difference in the diameter.  I think you need something from a An-22, in 1/72 these are humungous

I would agree with you on the problems of a more complex system being used with the V-22 over and above what is already a very complex drive train between the two engines to keep the thing in the air should one engine fail. 

The whole aircraft defies the accepted norms for flight as an aircraft and a helicopter.  These issues can all be ignored in the WHIF world and at least here we can toy with the ideas of counter-rotating propellers for the V-22.  The concept would have to be done as a Scale-O-Rama to make it look acceptable and it might require a pair of 1/48th scale Pogo propellers mounted on a 1/72nd scale V-22 to even come close to making it look believable.  The propeller blades could be the paddle shape or a square tip shape but they will certainly need to be larger than normal to make it pass muster. 

Another option would be to consider doubling up the existing rotors to make a six blade rotor/propeller combination for each engine.  The more blades the merrier and this usually means a reduction in rotor/propeller noise so it would be an additional benefit that would make the V-22 that much more stealthy. 

[PR19_Kit]

Kitnut,

Not sure why the An-22 props should be different to the Tu-95, they both use the same engines. In fact the An-22 was designed specifically to use the existing engine-prop combo that was available at the time.

The B-50 sounds a possible, I hadn't thought of that one, but you'd need to re-pitch one set of blades. I have no idea how to do that in plastic, but maybe someone does a set in white metal?

[kitnut617]

Well that made me go looking for my models Kit 

But as usual when I want them for comparison I can't find one of them.  Maybe I got the idea that they were bigger on the An-22 is because they look huge on the sprue, from memory the Tu-95 prop blades were more pointed than these too.

As an aside, I'm having a similar problem finding left and right hand props of 16 foot diameter for my contra prop idea on my Avro Chadderton.  Aeroclub do have some with square tips that are opposite to B-29 props but then there's a lot of re-working to do to make them look the same.

[PR19_Kit]

Well that made me go looking for my models Kit 

But as usual when I want them for comparison I can't find one of them.  Maybe I got the idea that they were bigger on the An-22 is because they look huge on the sprue, from memory the Tu-95 prop blades were more pointed than these too.

As an aside, I'm having a similar problem finding left and right hand props of 16 foot diameter for my contra prop idea on my Avro Chadderton.  Aeroclub do have some with square tips that are opposite to B-29 props but then there's a lot of re-working to do to make them look the same.

Situation normal about not finding bits you KNOW you have somewhere.....

I could believe that some An-22 props were different to some Tu-95 ones. The An-22 came later so would benefit from any development work, and they did put the Bear back into production after some years, I think that was the Sov Navy Tu-142 variant.

The Beverley props I fitted to my Osprey were 16' 6" footers, and may suit your needs, but I can't find them in Aeroclub's lists even though Hannants list them at £7.83 for four. If your Chadderton uses Centaurus engines that'd be exactly the right fit of course, as that's what the Beverley had. You';d need two sets for contra-props of course, but reversing the pitch isn't as difficult as you might think, although you'd have four times the work that I did....

It's a  matter of slowly twisting the blades the opposite way round, working along each blade in turn. I think it took me about 20 mins. to do mine.

[kitnut617]

The Beverley props I fitted to my Osprey were 16' 6" footers, and may suit your needs, but I can't find them in Aeroclub's lists even though Hannants list them at £7.83 for four. If your Chadderton uses Centaurus engines that'd be exactly the right fit of course, as that's what the Beverley had. You';d need two sets for contra-props of course, but reversing the pitch isn't as difficult as you might think, although you'd have four times the work that I did....

Yes got some of those already and some for a Britannia which are about the same diameter but turn the other way (IIRC).

See here so we don't hijack the thread  http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,20781.0/highlight,chadderton.html