Old Tank Hulls Upgunned And Thrown Back Into Combat

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Does anyone has large line drawings of MBT-70 and Magach?

Here's one of the MBT-70 - not that large, but it might help:

Since Greg's image link is providing the dreaded "RED X" I will try to make up for it with these images:

[dy031101]

Thanks very much for the help!

Now...... let's take the scenario from modern times back to, say, late WWII.

It began when I was reading an alternate history e-novel, where an anti-Nazi faction within Germany acquired several Char B.1bis tanks (under the pretense of agricultural tractors  ) to fend off corrupted Nazi officials and later Soviets.  As the story progressed, the tanks were to be upgraded by Krupp with 50mm KwK38 L/42 (replacing the turreted 47mm), 75mm KwK37 L/24 (replacing the hull-mounted 75mm), and the obligatory 7.92mm MG34 (replacing the co-axial MG).  Described by the author as an "assault gun" setup.

I hastily threw together a visualization, attached below.

It reminds me of M3 Medium Tank, another multi-armament design.  What if, late in WWII, something should happen and M3 Mediums were forced to soldier on alongside M4?

Seeing the development of the M7 Priest ideas thread and Arc3371's artwork, could M3 have been modified into a useful assault gun or self-propelled anti-tank gun, too?  Replace the hull-mounted weapon with a decent 3" anti-tank gun, have the turret either removed or replaced with the British lower-profile one firing anti-infantry canister ammunitions?

Can anyone think of other multi-armament designs that might become useful after some upgrades?  Or that the ideas above could use some alterations?

[dy031101]

I quickly did one like this:



What do you think?

And was fitting 17pdr like this feasible?

[Arc3371]

I was thinking along the same lines for a re-build of the Grant/Lee.

SPG





Tractor

[dy031101]

I was thinking along the same lines for a re-build of the Grant/Lee.

I was kinda inspired by those illustrations.

Actually, I got another scenario- late WWII, atomic bombs weren't dropped, and ROCA decided to commence plans to drive IJA off China once and for all.  ROCA needed more tanks, going so far as to accept surplus M3 Mediums.  But rumours that IJA had deployed their Type 3 Chi-Nu medium tanks to China led ROCA to be convinced that their tanks needed some upgunning to stay competitive......

To complete the illustration of the above scenario, however, I need to find out the most powerful anti-tank artillery ever employed by the ROCA during WWII......

[Jeffry Fontaine]

You should check out the JED Site http://www.jedsite.info/content/jed1.html.  There is a lot of good information on the M4 and M3 series vehicles as well as the artillery tractors that were built from major automotive components of these two vehicles.  While the capture of the images from the site can be a challenge it does have a lot to offer. 

[dy031101]

For the fun of it, I spent a couple of minutes everyday trying to upgun the T-28 tank 3D model that I have......

The latest efforts saw a Model 1943 T-34 turret fitted onto the T-28 hull......

Guess it worked out fine visually...... but the turret is of a two-man variety...... kinda a liability since the commander now has to double as a main gun gunner.

I tried the KV-1S turret previously, but the turret ring seemed too large for the hull......

Assuming there is no nationality restriction on the turret choice so long as it would fit into the hull, would anyone suggest a three-man turret with a gun that is an improvement over the L-10 gun and decent enough for a 1943-ish timeframe (understanding that a 85mm-armed turret might be too much to ask for)?

Or, for those who think that re-gunning the original main turret is a better idea than taking a new one, what gun (again, assuming there would be no problem as to who built the new gun) would you suggest?

Thanks in advance.

[B777LR]

I think a King Tiger would havegood potential to become a fine tank

Porsche turret
120 mm cannon
Reactive armour
Laser rangefinder
Night vision capability
Sort out the problems with the engine
Rubber clad tracks
Modern fire control systems
Rafael Trophy system
Diesel engine
Extra armour on the rear
Engine should be able to start on a switch, not by a hand turned crank-shaft

[chrisonord]

Hmmm,
This is exactly what I have done with 2 T-34's and a JS-3. The JS-3 has been up gunned and re armoured, one of the T-34's has been widened, re-tracked and re turreted, with a bigger gun fitted and ERA. The other T-34 has an auto turret with an anti-tank gun and anti-tank missiles, and is also fitted with appliqué armour. In my Cartel armour collection they serve along side T-55's T-62's T-72's and T-80's.
I have 2 ISU-122's waiting to be converted also, but I think I will make these into SAM platforms,and/or MLRS platforms.
Chris.     

[dy031101]

This is the T-28 hull with KV-1S turret (because I'd figure it to be lighter than those of the other KV-1 models)......

I shrank the turret ring a little to fit...... now I'm starting to appreciate the value of cutaway blueprints (because when I need those of the KV-1, M4, and maybe Panzers III and IV, I don't have them  )......

[chrisonord]

Here are some of the upgrade soviet tanks I did, can you tell what is what???








Cheers,
Chris.

[Weaver]

Brazil built a whole series of light tanks derived from the M5 Stuart, developing it and developing it until it became effectively a new vehicle. After  a revised hull was adopted with a bigger turret ring, it enfed up with a 90mm Cockerill Mk.II low pressure gun, same as their Cascavel armoured cars.

Chile had it's Shermans upgraded with the Israeli 60mm HVSS gun.

I proposed an M7 priest-based tank destroyer on the tank destroyers GB thread, my idea being to fit it with a 17-pdr, a roof, and maybe the little MG turret off the early M3-Lee.

[dy031101]

What's the turret ring size of the T-28?

I only need to know if it's 1600mm or more.

If it is, then perhaps......

[Weaver]

A French company were offering an M-24 Chaffe upgrade with a GIAT H-90 low-pressure gun (the one from the Panhard AML-90 armoured car) for a while.

Speaking of Panhard, ACE do 1/72nd kits of the AML-90, ERC-90 Lynx (same turret as the AML-90) and ERC-90 Sagaie. The latter has the GIAT TS-90 turret with a HUGE high-pressure 90mm gun (reputedly capable of going through the front armour of a T-62  ) and is a generic turret fitted to all sorts of platforms: ideal for re-fits.

PT-76 refits: I'm sure Cockerill have offered a re-fit of their Mk.II 90mm gun into the exisiting turret, the TS-90 would be a good option, and there'sa Russian company offering a re-fit with 57mm AAA gun in place of the 76mm (as an anti-armour weapon, not an AA weapon).

[PanzerWulff]

I'm in the middle of an IDF M-41 with a thermal shrouded 90mm as a light Cavalry tank to suppliment the M-51 "Super Sherman" it's going to get some aditional armor,side skirts,FN-MAG for the loader,dust cover for the mantlet And some stowage. Heres what I have done so far



Hope ya like it and any ideas are welcome
"Panzer"