Design By Comittee Part 2

[HOG]

Right you lot
SUGGESTIONS COMMENTS FEEDBACK
I want them all, If I have to I`ll just build what I like, but the reason for this build was to get usable (medicaly and physicaly) practicle suggestions of what to do with this model.
Progress so far





So far its 1:48 Monogram B25 nose, Do335 rear cockpit & Dragon Me262 intake over !:72 Italeri 109. This part will become the internal air ducting eventually. I`m waiting for some EMA/Plastruct tubing to be delivered for the engines, and heres the drawings which form the roughs for this build.


So come on lets go.
Gary  

[Eddie M.]

Okay, I'll put on up. Maybe some wings like a bird of prey. What mean is if you look at the wing of a say a hawk or kestral, the wing leading edge faces forward for a bit , then reached a point and starts to sweep aft. Just a thought.
  Eddie

[Brian da Basher]

I'm not sure you want my input because my first suggestion is always to add spats!

But seriously, I'd lengthen the nose and add some big, menacing guns. Maybe you could snip the barrels off some of those underwing cannons Stukas and Hurricanse had?

I'm going to enjoy watching where you go with this one!

Brian da Basher

[HOG]

Hiya Eddie & Brian,
At last INPUT

Eddie
I like the bird of prey feel. My eldest son is a keen birdwatcher so I`ll be looking through his books.
Brian
If you go back to the original post, one of the ideas I had for this build was NO undercart legs. The wheels sit just protruding from the fuselage in airfoil shaped fairings and relying on internal dampers and springs to absorb landing stresses so the whole fuselage is a spat.
As to the nose, I had intended to keep this short so as to give the pilot the best view forward as possible due to the very flat landing approach, somewhat like a glider due to the legless undercart system.

but thanks for a couple of great ideas to start
 

[Brian da Basher]

I like the idea of the fairings attached to the fuselage for the landing gear. There is something neat about the noise. How about arming it up like the nose on a Westland Whirlwind? I think having four gun barrels protruding from it would really make it look like a killer and would compliment those Klingon bird-of-prey wings you're planning.

How about adding some gun pods to those wingtips too?

Your projects are always different and get me thinking, HOG.

Brian da Basher

[wolfik]

truly no idea...  it happens not often....any "blue pile" against lack of ideas?  

[Mossie]

I've kept promising it on the other thread & came up shy each time, so I'll try & put what I mean into words.  I'm not personally keen on the profile of the machine you've got on paper, my instinct would be to have a flat underfuselage & have a honking great intake for both engines on top.

Saying, that, looking at the actual build I like the tapered shape you've got there & if you carry on with bottom being roughly symetrical (maybe a semi-burried intake below?) to top I think your on the right lines.

Thinking ahead to the wing, how about mounting it around the midline instead of up high, with plenty of anhedral & wheels at the wingtips?  My first thought would be with a large clipped delta, almost a flying wing but that diamond shape wing you've drawn would look good too.

[B777LR]

Anti tank or COIN! In a star wars strike force!

[ysi_maniac]

I have no words but emoticons    B)          :ar:        

[retro_seventies]

Hi HOG!

What role are we looking at for this beauty?  

If it's a replacement for ground attack and close support types then top speed will take a back place to weapons carriage, endurance and survivability...right?  If that's the cae, some armour on cockpit and that bottom engine wouldn't do any harm.  Maybe even go as far as to use decidedly unsubtle armour panels on those areas, complete with rivets.  

At the low levels that an aircraft like this would operate, agility is a key concern also - i'd advise lots of large control surfaces to allow the pilot to really pole this bird around and get the guns and rockets on target.

Have you considered a rear gunner/observer? The Stuka and Sturmovik had one, and there's no doubting that an extra pair of eyes would help get the mission done and up the odds of returning home alive just a little.  


I'm a little concerned about the lower engine sucking up debris on takeoff - do you have anything planned? Screens/door etc over the intakes?  Maybe something as simple as fine mesh just inside the intake would look sufficient at this scale?

Very exciting idea overall - can't wait to see the next update....and may i respectfully suggest heavy weathering on the paint when it's done?  Maybe a couple of patches on the fuselage or wings?  Plenty of soot at the gun ports? I'm sure that a plane of this nature would really be "in the thick of it".

     

[HOG]

Trying to answer all
Hi Mossie
Ideas have changed since first doodles and if you look at the sideview you`ll notice the wing centreline now moved down to mid fuselage, with intakes for the lower engine now going just under the black plascard similar to drawing DbyC 4.
The top picture with the model over the plan gives a rough guesstimate on the final shape depending on sizes of available wheels I use.
Hi Brian
Problem with a gun nose is the short length of nose. Any guns plus ammo would have to fit under the cockpit where the semi retracted wheels and their bits would go. (plus I have just filled the holes in the B25 nose) But I have considerd gun pods like the Mk108/151`s under 109 and 190 wings mounted below the cockpit. But the midwing pods are definately going to get somthin and maybe underwing stores as well as weapons load replaces all that heavy undercart.
hi N777LR
Poss nightfighter if that nose is big enough for berliner radar. But definately NO starwars!
Hi Retro70`s
As to role not yet decided for sure, but as I have 2 Ju004`s speed shouldn`t be a problem. I did Ground attack on my 262+2x109 build and not ready for that again.



Maybe photo recon in light PRU blue with grey mottle. As to the lower intakes, I still have some Evergeen shiplap card that I used on the 262W tractor that might be usefull.

If the plane takes of on the top engine and starts the lower in flight,......maybe a small rocket engine like the Flitzer might assist takeoff.

Eddie, those wings idea you gave me have sent my mind into overdrive. Been perusing my son`s books and have found lots of inspiration. Several interesting shapes, and am considering posting a selection of outlines that I like and leaving it to a viewer vote then taking the chosen bird to define the role for this `bird` and even maybe letting the natural colouration influence the final paint job e.g
swallow = crescent wing...........dark blue grey finish ..................airsupe fighter
owl       = silent flight ..............dark mottle finish........................night fighter
pidgeon = long endurance flight.......camo...................................nuisance bomber
etc etc

thanks for all the ideas people  & and keep em coming
 

[HOG]

Heyo All,
stage 2 incoming.
I`ve invented a cockpit that isn`t what I would really like as I`ve used up all my spare etch & resin and can`t be really botherd to scratch build but whats there should look okay under a closed canopy. Best fun was reinventing the bang seat.
For BdaB, I`ve measured and think I can get a couple of mk103`s in the nose so have fitted the blast tubes. Once the cockpit was done I was able to work on the lower nose and as expected was a paradise of sun sea and sanding with no sun lots of water and plenty of sanding.






The black plascard box at the rear is the start of the engine section. The idea being is the top engine has the usual rounded shape which changes into a slab side joining the 2 engines with the lower engine having a flat  lower base but rounded edges if that makes sense, any way I think there is a sketch of it on here somewhere.

finally here are two pages of very rough sketches of wing shapes.


Well I did say they were rough but cast a vote for your favourite and I`ll see what I can do, perhaps a quick recap of the undercart arrangement should be mentioned.  The front and rear main wheels just protrude through the fuselage which sould be assumed as a big spat, the inner section of the wing can either be horizontal or have dihedral to the pod midwing where the wing drops to the ground with either a small wheel or ski will be fixed. Think Harrier stabillizing wheels at the wingtip.  

[Brian da Basher]

Blast tubes and a bigg spat! Yummy! I coiuldn't ask for more, except perhaps Wing 'D'.

Love your work on those blast tubes, HOG!

Brian da Basher

[Eddie M.]

Your work look very good and wing K is what I was discribing.  B)
   Eddie  

[BadersBusCompany]

No No its gotta be wing 'B', and do them foldable