Malta Class Carriers

[Lawman]

The war in the Pacific is over by September 1945 (with the signature of the Instrument of Surrender), and the government recognises that its carrier fleet is in pretty poor shape. As a result of government indecision, the four Malta class carriers end up being laid down, even though it is recognised that the money simply isn't there for their completion. So... time rolls on, and its now the '50s, and the decrepit carrier fleet is in worse condition, but manage to perform their jobs in Suez. As a result of these problems, the Navy remember the four incomplete Maltas, and push for them to be completed, all to a similar specification to the similar sized American Midway class. The government decides that it would be easier to simply finish building the bare hulls, than to tear apart the existing ships.

As a first step, the designers go on a little trip to the US, and get access to the SCB-110 rebuild program used for the Midways. The result is a very similar set of British carriers, with excellent build quality, and new boilers, new cats, and new equipment in general. As a result, the rebuilding program for Victorious, Ark and Eagle are all cancelled, in favour of the new carriers, instead serving out their remaining years pending the new carriers coming online. The four Centaur class carriers, Centaur, Albion, Bulwark and Hermes, are all completed, to serve as dual-role ASW and commando carriers. The four ships are to embark large numbers of helicopters, and initially some Fairey Gannet ASW aircraft, though these are only used for COD and some AEW tasks when Sea Kings become available.

The result is a nice uniform fleet of four fleet carriers, all basically identical, and four commando/ASW carriers. The fleet carriers are to embark airgroups of up to 60 aircraft, with a mix of Buccaneers, Sea Kings, and new fighter and AEW aircraft.  

[Zen]

Like I've said before, you need new drydock facilities able to handle them and you need warfs long enough to tie up against, of the latter there would be three such available to the RN of the former none.

So here's what you do, you build a new facility for the new large CV's, idealy on Portland, with a nice new rail and road bridge bypassing Weymouth and Dorchester, via Yeovilton to Bristol. You base your CV fleet there in Portland, not Portsmouth or Plymouth, as its idealy placed for Yeovilton and access out via the Channel to the rest of the world.

One in dock for refit/repair.
One at the warf ready to go.
One on deployment wherever.
One at Gibralta's warf ready to move where needed.

Hanger was 460ft long from my sources but the figure is dodgy. Catapults where intended to be the 160ft hydraulic types then in use.

Crew over 3,000. Ergo 12,000 crew in total required.

200,000shp for 32kts, via four shafts.
Type 960 radar mounted in a seperate island aft of the main island.

SOOOO.......
Ditch the inboard lifts, shift the forward deck edge lift over the other side the ship, fit her with 151ft MkIV catapults and a 8.5 degree angled deck.

[GTX]

For a slight twist, how about this line as well - http://www.whatifmodelers.com/forum//index...wtopic=15452&hl

Regards,

Greg

[Lawman]

I agree with most of the changes - basically the idea is to give the UK a decent, modern fleet, capable of operating good numbers of the latest jets. If the UK had had four very modern carriers, entering service in the early '60s, then it changes many things. I also agree with your basing, though I wonder whether Gibraltar or Cyprus might be a better idea. Gibraltar gives quick access to the Med and Atlantic, but Cyprus gives you pretty quick access to both the Med and the Indian Ocean, and ultimately the Pacific. One major advantage of the huge Malta class is the ability to carry a much more balanced airwing, rather than the odd mix of assorted bits that fit the individual carrier. The Centaurs also give the UK an excellent commando/ASW carrier capability, with the ability to embark thirty or so helicopters!  

[Lawman]

Another interesting development might have been the Supermarine Type 576 Supersonic Scimitar. It had excellent performance, and would be pretty much in the same league as the F-4 Phantom. The UK could have ordered their development in 1958, for a service entry in the early '60s. The RAF are then persuaded by its excellent performance to buy them to operate alongside Lightnings - Lightnings handling the interception mission, and Super Scimitars using their range for fighter duties. This gives the RN a modern fighter to operate off their Malta class carriers, and also gives a good stopgap pending availability of the much more advanced Type 583! With Super Scimitar entering service in the early '60s, the 583 is less urgently needed, and can enter service in the early '70s.

The Type 576 would even have been a candidate for 'Speying', and might have taken better to it than the Phantom, since the Super Scimitar could have been modified at the design stage. It is then ordered in large numbers by the RN and then RAF, and the P1154 project never needs to see the light of day, with both the RN and RAF happy to buy 576s. As part of the government's enforced 'jointness', the RAF are forced to trial the 576 and Buccaneer, and end up loving them both, and see them as an opportunity to keep British aircraft manufacturing going.

It should also be remembered of course that if the RN had got the four Malta class carriers completed in the '50s, in place of the refurbs on the Ark, Eagle and Vicky, then there's no CVA-01 vs TSR-2 contest. The RAF either get TSR-2s, or are persuaded to buy something else, to supplement their low level strike Buccaneers (and help replace Vulcans in the deterrent role).

There are the obvious candidates for a stand-in TSR-3 (well, it aint the -2!):

CF-105 Arrow, modified for the strike role - excellent performance etc...
Mirage IV(UK), with Avon, Olympus or Spey engines
F-111, though a little later, possibly envisioned as a Buccaneer replacement for the '70s?


Both of these have advantages and disadvantages, but despite the Arrow's excellent performance, I would expect the IV(UK) to win, just because it would be ready. The F-111 obviously has the performance etc, but it really would be ready until the '70s, so Mirage IVs with bigger Speys might be the best shorter term option. I would certainly look at adding some kind of standoff munition though, or just assigning them tactical nuclear delivery roles. I would actually hope to have them form enough units to assign some to strategic recon, some to tactical nuclear strike, and some to maritime strike missions.


Another thing, though somewhat unrelated, would have been Britain realising earlier that supersonic training wasn't really needed. This could have lead to the Hawk, Jaguar and Alpha Jet all being one aircraft, probably a beefier Alpha Jet, with a pair of non-afterburning RR/Turbomeca Adour engines, in the 4000lb thrust category each. The aircraft would probably be similar to the Italian AMX, though with a pair of smaller engines.

They would be built in three main versions:

- Land based jet trainer (in place of Hawk and Alpha Jet 'E')
- Land based strike aircraft (in place of Alpha Jet 'A' and Jaguar)
- Carrier based jet trainer (in place of the Zephyr in MN service, and nothing in RN service!)

This would be a pretty decent small aircraft, capable of carrying a decent warload in the strike role, and being a reasonably affordable trainer. In some senses it would have been more of a replacement for the Hawker Hunter in RAF service - not just as a strike type, but also significantly as a trainer, which the Hunter did well into the Hawk's career. If you combine the Hawk, Alpha Jet and Jaguar orders, you get an idea of just how significant this aircraft could have been!

[Zen]

Nope, Scimitar Type576 was quoted with a mach 1.65 top speed, the radar does'nt even seem to be the 24 inch dish but something smaller, likely either the 21 inch or 18 inch.
Length was 61ft, span increased also, weight was up.

go for the fighter Buccaneer instead.
30 inch dish, similar speed, but much greater endurance.

[Zen]

Crucial question from my reading.

Which Malta?

If you mean the last Malta design then I see no hope for it, too late.

If you mean the Type C design, we're talking about double hangers like on the Audacious class.

Or do you mean the Davenport No10 limited carrier about 50ft longer than the Audacious class?

[DarrenP]

Alternatitive is the RN decides to Replace the Tired Illistrious class carriers and Goes ahead with Malta, Gibraltar, New Zealand is renamed Ark Royal and Africa is renamed Eagle. Replacing Illustrious, Victorious, Formidable and Indomitable. The first 4 Centaur are completed with limited angle flight decks and the Remaining 4 are re designed as Hermes Class.
2 of each class are used in service and 2 are in reserve to lengthen life of the fleet.

Fleet Carriers
Malta
Gibraltar
Ark Royal
Eagle

Light Carrier Batch 1
Albion
Bulwark
Centaur
Arrogant

Light Carrier Batch 2
Hermes
Elephant
Monmoth
PolyPhemus

[Cliffy B]

Is this the version of the design everyone is talking about?



As far as I know that's the only official drawing of the Malta Class.  Anyone know of any others?

That's a scan out of Freidman's UK Carrier book (can't remember the full title).  I added the gray background because the drawing wasn't printed very well in the book and after cleaning it up most of the line work got lost in the white background.

[Tornado]

I've been thinking about a Malta for the 1950s too lately.

If you consider the time it took to complete Ark Royal and Hermes with the latest developments, around 9-12 years then its likely as not the Maltas would not complete until 1957-59 at the earliest. Even then funds for all four are lacking and your going to need something as an interim until then. Rebuilding the Illustrious Class like Victorious is very expensive and time consuming and would hamper the Malta Class. I would therefore finish Eagle and the Centaur Class as interim ships, give them interim angled decks and steam catapults as and when possible and do what Zen suggests in regards to docks. More are needed anyway for ships this size.

So when the Maltas complete they will be a cross between Ark Royal and Hermes with very similar electronic and armament fits.

For Shipbucket I drew this baseline Malta with a what-if 1945 air wing showing the possible combinations of Fairey Spearfish, Shorts Sturgeon, DH Sea Hornet (day and NF), Hawker Sea Fury, Supermarine Seafang, Westland Wyvern TF.Mk.1 and Hawker Sea Hawk.


I was going to do a what-if 1950s version anyway but this thread has given me the shove to draw it.

[anthonyp]

One of my biggest influences to start building whifs was this site.  It's got a bunch of Naval whif pics.

[DarrenP]

HMS Malta       John Brown Engineering Laid Down 1950 Launched 1958 completed 1962
HMS Gibraltar   Harland & Wolff Laid down 1951 Launched 1958 Completed 1963
HMS Ark Royal  John Brown Engineering Laid Down 1958 Launched 1967 Completed 1971
HMS Eagle      Harland & Wolff Laid Down 1959 Launched 1968 Completed 1973

HMS Albion    Swan Hunter Laid Down 1944 Launched 1947 Completed 1954
HMS Centaur Vickers Armstrong Barrow Laid Down 1945 Launched 1947 Completed 1953
HMS Bulwark Cammell Laird Laid Down 1945 Launched 1948  Completed 1954
HMS Arrogant Vickers Armstrong Tyne 1945 Launched 1948 Completed 1954

HMS Hermes  Harland & Wolff Laid Down 1946 Launched 1953 Completed 1959
HMS Elephant Swan Hunter Laid Down 1947   Launched  1954 Completed 1959
HMS Monmoth Fairfield        Laid Down 1946  Launched  1954 Completed 1959
HMS Polyphemus Swan Hunter Laid Down 1947 Launched 1955 Completed 1960

[DarrenP]

Having seen the flexibility that carriers offered the UK decided to invest in a Long term carrrier programe based of sealed designs. The Later Malta class both were redisigned on the slip to accomodate the larger faster aircraft and both were completed to operate the Phantom and Buccaneer. The Batch 2 Hermes class were completed to carry an "Escort" air group. Given they were to samll to operate the Phantom and could operate the Buccaneer it was decided thease carriers should concentrate on ASW ops with US aircraft in the form of the S2 Tracker and E1 tracer the Wessex 31 and a small fast jet element of A4E Skyhawks. The 4 Batch 1 Centaur class were all converted to Command carriers between 1959 & 1967. 1 of each batch was rotated in reserve and they tended to operate together being Home Ported in Plymouth, Malta and Singapore and the 2 reserve ships in Plymouth.
When Eagle & Ark Royal comissioned Malta and Gibraltar were placed in reserve. 

[Thorvic]

Think you may need to check British Secret Projects Fighters & Bombers, together with the forthcoming Admiralty's AEW to get an understanding of Carrier Aircraft Programs.

[DarrenP]

By 1982 the Malta class were approaching the end of their careers. They had been modified to take the phantom and buccaneer and sea king. They were rearmed in the Mid 70's with the 4.5 in guns giving way to seacat and in 1981 were equipped with the then new Phalanx CIWS system.
Malta was in reserve but was  Christmas tree spares to keep the others at sea. Though the accommodation was Spartan in comparison with more modern ships they were popular with crews and the Large carrier force always attracted the best. Home ported in Plymouth one was at sea on patrol/training currently Gibraltar and Ark Royal was on a return from the USA where she had enjoyed a maintenance period in New York which had included the fitting of Phalanx. Eagle was awaiting refit although the New Conservative Defence minister John Nott had told the Navy that she was to be reduced to reserve and sold within 18 months.
The Commando carriers Albion was in Malta on a leave period in her homeport with her Embarked force of 41 RM Cdo. Bulwark had just returned from Norway with Fearless and had the Bulk of 3 commando Bde's BV202's aboard to be refitted in the UK for Clansman. Centaur and Intrepid had been payed off to reserve. And Arrogant was working up to replace Centaur and was conducting Helicopter exercises with 40 RM Cdo
The Light Carriers were surprisingly all in commission Hermes was in Gibraltar preparing for the Springtime exercise had her full complement of A4,S2 seakings and a C1. Elephant was starting Handover to Polyphemus at Plymouth and Monmoth was in the western approaches conducting trials with the new Tracker AEW aircraft (Fitted with Searchwater radar) she also had embarked some adapted C1 Trader with extensive ESM kit to assess the performance of the new radar. Monmoth was also acting as a training carrier for Buccaneer and Skyhawks flying out of Yeovilton and Lossiemouth.