Avro CF-105 Arrow

[kitnut617]

I did that too Lee, I found the canopy fitted amazingly well with very little to do:

[kitnut617]

Has anyone attempted to do a lash-up of parts from the CF-105 with a Tornado?  Reason for asking is that both seem to have a very box-shaped fuselage and the Tornado cockpit and canopy would be a real upgrade to that strange Vee-shaped windscreen and clam-shell contraption that is provided in the kit.  If you have enough dead Tornado kits on hand, you can also consider adding a pair of Tonka tails and use the wheels as direct replacements for what is provided in the Hobbycraft kit. 

Jeff, I had a look at using Tornado intakes etc. but found they're a bit small.  A better option is to use a Mig 25/31 fuselage, they have even more similarities to the Arrow I found, especially if you're going to upgrade the engines to something a bit bigger   

[Jeffry Fontaine]

I had a look at using Tornado intakes etc. but found they're a bit small.

I wandered down that path as well and realized that the only way it would work is to source a 1/32nd scale Tornado for the intake parts.  Something I am not willing to pursue due to the price and the fact that I have way too many kits in protective custody already to really want another project like this.  Still it may be food for thought for one of the other members that had reached an impasse with a WHIF CF-105. 

A better option is to use a Mig 25/31 fuselage, they have even more similarities to the Arrow I found, especially if you're going to upgrade the engines to something a bit bigger

I have a Revell MiG-25 and the Lindberg MiG-31 in the stash, never even considered the fuselage from either kit as a candidate for a kit bashing but that might work for someone.  I think I will have to get a spare F-4 canopy and do a check-fit to see if that would work in 1/48th scale.  I did perform a similar check-fit of the F-4 canopy parts to the Mirage IV and discovered that was not the path to take. 

[kitnut617]

Hi Jeff,

I've already started one using a Mig 31 fuselage, it's for my idea of what a Mach 3 Arrow would have been like,  here's a couple of photos of it but it's not complete and I've had to pack it away this last year because of our recent house move.  As soon as I get the new house sorted out I'll dig it out and take some better photos of it. In the top photo you can see it just above the Lightning minus it's forward fuselage.  In the second photo it's just below the Concorde behind the box.

[Sauragnmon]

*digs up the thread as he gets annoyed with the search feature and wants to sound off ideas for his insanity*

Alright, I have a few Arrow-based concepts bouncing around in my head - like Most of the crazy canucks on this board.  I got one HC 1/72 arrow under the tree, plan on another for bash-bits, and have a third lurking around for additional parts considerations.  Here are my following ideas, in all their glory:

1) The oft-rumored Last Arrow crew hides it, finishes it up, and when the prospect of it never being used by any Western force comes out, the crew decides Better Red than Dead, rigs it up with long range tanks and Defects with it.  Soviets take the Arrow, paint it up, and do some tests with the aircraft.  Now entertaining Soviet Colour Ideas for current project - One problem, I can't find the images of the damn weapons bay, I KNOW they were posted on the forum Somewhere, but I can't find them.  Anybody got them on hand and can share?  I'm wanting to hang an Alamo in the bay and have it shown open, possibly in flight.

2) The Soviets take advantage of the Arrow's tech in some places, and decide to make a few improvements to the MiG-25, like a large delta wing and tail config, somewhat like a Fishbed on steroids.  They also go about mounting a small internal weapons bay for a couple of extra missiles or other such things.

3) The Canadians get in on the Phantom, and when they realize just how horrible the thing's wing loading is, they decide to get personal and fix it, using some of the Phantom's competition - bigger dog-toothed delta wings anybody?  To offset the extra weight, they mount slightly larger intakes, and akin to the Spey Phantoms, mount in the Iroquois.  If you can't beat them, join them.

4) The Arrow actually succeeds in managing the fourth dimension, Politics, when the Americans get involved, a collaboration between North American and Avro Canada insues, as the Arrow gets a slight resurrection with input from the XF-108.  New engine mountings of the TF-30, and the use of the AWG-9 radar system, supporting the AIM-54 Phoenix in the Arrow II provides a high altitude, high speed, high efficiency bomber-destroyer for the northern lines.

[MAD]

Hay Kitnut617, is that a Convair B-58 Hustler's tail gun on the rear of the Concorde in the photo?
If so does that mean you have put together a 'What If' strategic bomber version of the Concorde?
If so can we see more?

M.A.D

[kitnut617]

I like that Arrow design that had the raked intakes...

See here Kendra, something I've been working off & on for the last five, six years:

http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,20873.0/highlight,super+arrow.html

[kitnut617]

Hay Kitnut617, is that a Convair B-58 Hustler's tail gun on the rear of the Concorde in the photo?
If so does that mean you have put together a 'What If' strategic bomber version of the Concorde?
If so can we see more?

M.A.D

I had a link to my build but do you think I can find it and I've even done a search 

[KJ_Lesnick]

kitnut617,

I still like the raked intake version more

[Sauragnmon]

Alright, here's the Red Arrow I've been working on - nobody gave me any input, so I figured I'd just go about doing it in Interceptor Grays modelled off a MiG-25 Foxbat over on ARC.  I've been operating on this in the dark, carving out sections, building a weapons bay section.  Essentially this is a later-fit model Arrow, with little structural rebuild - I plan to have two AA-8's on small rails hanging off the fuselage.  The majority of the aircraft is untouched - the forward pilot fig I decided to jack from an old MiG-29 model, one of my two Salvage Fulcrums - something to spruce up the cockpit, I was also going to replace the seats with the seats from my Fulcrums, but that fell through as the surgery to try and extract one seat failed.  Alright, enough blabbing, here she is, with the majority of her light gray, the dark gray nose and the black antiglare.  I'm going to add the metal paint sections soon, and the intakes.









The missile in the bay is an R-27T1 "Alamo" yeah I know, it's something you'd have to see refitted systems to support, and they've done some internal work on this bird to keep it up to spec - maybe even operating a high speed interceptor unit - AL-31's might fit into the engine mounts, I'll compare them tomorrow.  I Might have an IRST ball I could put on it I wanted.

[Scooterman]

Been doing some quick reading on the Arrow and was wondering what it could/would have carried.  Somewhere it mentioned AIM-4 Falcons then the (AIM-7) Sparrow.  These would be carried in the weapons bay.  Does anybody have any better info?  And more importantly, maybe pics of the bays?

TIA chaps!

[Deino]

Hmmm ... I have some scans of it at home (so maybe just PM me) ... othewise I think at the Secret-Projects-Forum is a tread for it:

Correction: Here is it ...

http://www.avroarrow.org/AvroArrow/arrowtechdrawings2.html
http://www.avroarrow.org/interactive/weapac.asp



Deino

[Weaver]

There's a lot of confusion about the Arrow weapon pack, much of it caused by journalists swapping one missile name for another without thinking it through (hence the "eight sparrows" nonsense you sometimes see).

As I understand it, there were three versions of the weapon pack:

First version: eight Falcons in four tandem bays.

Second version: three semi-exposed Sparrow IIs side-by-side with fin tips level with each other.

Third version: four Sparrow IIIs (or late Sparrow IIs ) side-by-side but staggered with fins overlapping.

Here's the discussion on Secret Projects:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4166.0/highlight,arrows.html

[Sauragnmon]

OK, so I think my Arrowski's weapons bay was a little too big - my own bad, I didn't really know how Deep it was supposed to be, and just built the roof of the bay onto the upper strengthening walls.  I think it's .75" instead of .5", end result being that it's a foot and a half too deep.  Oops.  Ah well, crap happens.  It still looks cool.

I'll have to keep the bay in mind when I do the Arrowcat build, I think the Phoenixes will have to be semi-recessed, and partially stacked over each other resulting in the armament system set to launch the center one first at all times.  Of course I think the TF-30's might afford me some additional width overall, but I'm not sure about that.

[Weaver]

OK, so I think my Arrowski's weapons bay was a little too big - my own bad, I didn't really know how Deep it was supposed to be, and just built the roof of the bay onto the upper strengthening walls.  I think it's .75" instead of .5", end result being that it's a foot and a half too deep.  Oops.  Ah well, crap happens.  It still looks cool.

I'll have to keep the bay in mind when I do the Arrowcat build, I think the Phoenixes will have to be semi-recessed, and partially stacked over each other resulting in the armament system set to launch the center one first at all times.  Of course I think the TF-30's might afford me some additional width overall, but I'm not sure about that.

You could always say that the centre bay is deeper at the expense of some fuel, but the left and right bays are shallower with different missiles in them. IIRC, the structure between the weapon pack and the "ceiling" of it's bay consists of a series of bolt-on cross-ways tie-rods, so they could be replaced with a "cranked" structure that cuts into the fuel tank space between the intakes.

Bear in mind that although the weapon bay doors in the pack are 16' long, the actual detachable pack is 2' longer due to the missile avionics crates at the front end. Relocate and/or miniaturise those electronics and you get an extra two feet of length to play with.