B-17 Flying Fortress, Boeing Model 298 and 299

[Daryl J.]

Using Monogram's 1/48 B-17G:

Cloth outer wings, remove chin turret, PBY-5-like waist blisters, twin-blade props, no dorsal turret.

External British built torpedos.

Painted in the Atlantic or Coastal Command schemes

[GTX]

Anyone crazy enough to have a go at this:



Regards,

Greg

[MAD]

How about a stripped down B-17 - no turrets, guns or gunners.  Would be lighter, more aerodynamic and faster!  It was actually put forward by the USAAF, but the pilots wanted none of it, they felt "safer" with all those guns, even though they flew 100kts slower  

Certainly by 1944 with the arrival of the Mustang the need for defensive armament was not there, the biggest threat being flak.

This principle worked on the latter and more advanced B-29 when the USAAF started removing all but the tail guns whilst carrying out missions over Japan!



Also if its faster speed you are after you may have to go with a more modern thinner aspect ratio wing to cut down on drag! But this will effect your wing tank capacity!

M.A.D

[MAD]

With so many B-17 being built - why not develop a dedicated airborne tanker version to ferry aircraft from the United States to Europe, Pacific, and North African theatres!
This could lead to an operational KB-17F variant which is used to support special long-range bomber and recon missions!
This could have gone a long way in supporting the massive and almost unproductive B-29 self supporting mission to establish themselves for operations (just as many B-29 being used to dry carry fuel, bombs, spare engines and support equipment into their new operation bases, before they could carry out bombing missions against Japan!)

M.A.D

[dy031101]

Although I didn't find anything like that in this thread...... I'd be surprised if nobody thought about how cool a zwilling version of B-17 would have looked......?

Anyone crazy enough to have a go at this:

I don't remember any four-engine competitor to the B-17...... did I miss anything?

Take that competitor...... maybe turn it into a strafer of some sort using side-mounted cannons?

[GTX]

I don't remember any four-engine competitor to the B-17...... did I miss anything?

Nope - I was simply looking at the pic and daring anyone to make a model like it.

Regards,

Greg

[dy031101]

Nope - I was simply looking at the pic and daring anyone to make a model like it.

No no no, I don't mean there being a B-17 competitor because of the picture you posted.

I meant that I think we could have based the comic airplane on a scaled-up version of the B-18 but am wondering if I wasn't awared that a four-engine competitor of the B-17 existed because I did not read history of the B-17 hard enough.

Or was the B-18 indeed the only competitor to the B-17?

[GTX]

I meant that I think we could have based the comic airplane on a scaled-up version of the B-18 but am wondering if I wasn't awared that a four-engine competitor of the B-17 existed because I did not read history of the B-17 hard enough.

Or was the B-18 indeed the only competitor to the B-17?

: 
According to Wikipedia (not always accurate I know):

On 8 August 1934, the U.S. Army Air Corps (USAAC) tendered a proposal for a multi-engined bomber to replace the Martin B-10... Boeing competed with the Douglas DB-1 and Martin Model 146 for the Air Corps contract.

Douglas DB-1 (B-18):



Martin Model 146:



Both were twin engined.  Mind you it might be interesting to see what a 4 engined version of each might look like.

Regards,

Greg

[jcf]

The 1935 contest was for a twin-engine aircraft bomber, and Boeing bringing the four-engine Model 299 (designated B-299 for tests)
to the competition was not greeted with open arms from the two official competitors. However, it was make it or break time for Boeing
as the 299 had consumed almost all of the companies cash reserves.

Four-engine B-18 look to the DC4E or B19 for basic layout /concept.
A four-engine Model 146, look to the Martin M-130 flying boat for family/period design elements.

[Chris707]

>With so many B-17 being built - why not develop a dedicated airborne tanker version to ferry aircraft from the United States to Europe, Pacific, and North African theatres!

This actually happened in one instance -a B-17E was used as a tanker to refuel a Liberator - this was a test for a plan to bomb Tokyo from the Aleutians, using B-17s refueled from B-24s (reversal of the test) Obviously not carried out...

The trouble you'd get with a B-17 refueling B-29s is the performance disparity between the two types - the Superfort would have to slow down and come down from altitude to link up with the KB-17, increasing the fuel burn in exchange for the limited amount of transfer fuel that the Fort could hold. A better solution might have been for a tanker version of the Boeing 307, but by the time you'd have Superforts needing tanking, you could probably have an earlier-than-real-world KB-29 or KC-97.

But for the WHIF world, a tanker Fort coupled with say an all-black B-24 Carpetbagger receiver for special missions or something along that line is indeed a neat idea!

Chris
------------------------------------------------------------
B-17G 909

[jcf]

With so many B-17 being built - why not develop a dedicated airborne tanker version to ferry aircraft from the United States to Europe, Pacific, and North African theatres!

Mmm, perhaps because B-17s regularly flew to the UK anyhow without aerial refueling?
Ditto to Hawaii and then points West and South.

[dy031101]

Would it be possible to couple two Cyclone engines together?

Okay I admit that I ask this question so that the attempt to "zwilling" two B-17 airframes, for a heavier fuel and bomb load, wouldn't potentially look to unwieldy......

[jcf]

Would it be possible to couple two Cyclone engines together?

Yeah, its called the R-3350 Duplex-Cyclone. 

A twinned B-17 powered by three R-3350 engines would be amusing.

A Zwilling-Tri-motor, two whiffs with one model. 

[dy031101]

Yeah, its called the R-3350 Duplex-Cyclone.  

A twinned B-17 powered by three R-3350 engines would be amusing.

A Zwilling-Tri-motor, two whiffs with one model.  

Didn't realize it...... a competition with the B-29 for the engine......

Could the engine production have been ramped up if there was a need?

[Cliffy B]

Hey guys, I came across this photo gallery of a restored B-17G "Aluminum Overcast".  Figured this was the best place for it.  She's fully flyable and 100% restored inside and out.  Even has some ultra rare K-17 lead computing gun sights on the waist .50s!

Enjoy!
http://home.comcast.net/~szee1a/Al_overcast/Al_overcast.html