B-17 Flying Fortress, Boeing Model 298 and 299

[Matt_S]

I had thought of doing a B-17 Coast Guard aircraft, but then I found it was done for real(SB-17).  So now I'm back to the drawing board - any ideas?  Maybe an overland SAR plane?

Matt  

[John Howling Mouse]

You could streamline it by removing turrets, etc. and turn it into a very early turbojet version, maybe with the engine nacelles removed and slip-through-wing jets in their place (ala the Comet).  Wings sure look thick enough (with a slight addition over/under the locations of the "engines").

Just another wacky idea.    

Note: at NO time did I even mention a T-Tail!!!
 

[Joe C-P]

Biplane

Primitive ASM carrier - the US was working on such, and actually used radio-controlled bomb-laden fighters in the Pacific. Put one under each wing and make up some antenna.  B)  

[Radish]

I like the Japanese production B-17.
sounds good.
Lots of people actuallyflew small numbers (Dominica, Israel, France, etc.,) but what about Argentina?
Why not a Free French bomber squadron in a French 3-colour camo?

Move to Aircav's scenario and do a huge floatplane in the USN 3-colour blues?
Why not a coastal patrol/commercial raider along the Norwegian coast, with underwing rockets, lots of radar and a splinter white/dark grey camo?

Hey,
the floatplane version could be pirate?
     

[Supertom]

Hey, you could do a B-17 Mistel.  I know, it was tried, but not as a Mistel configuration as tried by the Luftwaffe was it?  Swap out the nose with a large warhead nose ala Mistel S2.  Stick a fighter on top.  A P-47C perhaps?

[peterhobbins]

The RAAF nearly received B-17s instead of B-24s, so you could do either OD/NG B-17F or natural metal B-17G with Aussie roundels.

The Japanese did capture and evaluate several B-17s (a D and an E/F, I think) - they look pretty amazing in hinomarus! Try j-aircraft.com under captured aircraft to see what they looked like.

I have also seen a photo (could dig it out if you're keen) of a B-17 with a round Erco nose turret (as on US Navy PB4Ys) ins some sort of trial installation - certainly looks different.

[nev]

How about a stripped down B-17 - no turrets, guns or gunners.  Would be lighter, more aerodynamic and faster!  It was actually put forward by the USAAF, but the pilots wanted none of it, they felt "safer" with all those guns, even though they flew 100kts slower  

Certainly by 1944 with the arrival of the Mustang the need for defensive armament was not there, the biggest threat being flak.

[lancer]

Certainly by 1944 with the arrival of the Mustang the need for defensive armament was not there, the biggest threat being flak.

Well, I'd certainly like guns on any heavy I was flying if any fighters got through the defensive screen.

[Chris707]

Well, you could do the Fort that was fitted with the Fulton system:

http://www.laahs.com/art77.htm
http://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/95unclass/Leary.html

B-17 launching Northrop JB's:

http://ww2aircraft.virtualave.net/images/b...7flyingbomb.jpg

Vega XB-38:

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/bo...mbers/b38-2.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/ak3/DamselsandDue...elists/B38.html

Borate bombers:

http://winjack3.com/b-17_borate.html

http://www.unlimitedexcitement.com/Miss%20...10%20Engine.htm
Note the mention that thought was given to an escort version of the XB-38!

Cheers


Chris

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[Patrick H]

Whatever modification in terms of nosewheel and turboprops you might do, I think the B17 is way to small to have lasted longer.  There wouldn't have been much room to enlarge the bombbay either or to give it nuclear capability like the B 29.
To bad though as it is a beatifull aircraft.



Patrick

[Madoc]

Folks,

Earlier this year I got to doodling & imagining whilst attending one too many boring meetings.  I struck upon the idea of Boeing having tried to squeeze more life out of its B-17 production contracts by incorporating as much of the B-29 technology as it could.

To this end, the flight deck would've been cut down.  Too much weight and too much drag.  Remove that so that it's now in line with the rest of the fuselage and have each pilot have his own little bubble canopy, a la the B-42/ B-43, and replace all the manned turrets with remote control ones from a B-29.  Add a few sighting blisters for the remaining gunners and certainly delete that ball turret on the belly!  Then they'd replace those big Wright radials with their built-in headwind and slap on a brace of turbosupercharged Packard built Merlins - similar to the XB-38 installation.  

What's result would be a faster, lighter, smoother, longer ranged, and decidedly unique looking bird.  It would also come in a poor second best to the B-29 but it would be cheaper and quicker to have on hand.

Now, if only my modeling skills were up to my imaginings!

Oh, and B-17's did remain in service for decades after WWII.  They were handy machines and carried a useful load to a great distance.  Air / Sea Rescue used them and I recall seeing an elint machine with huge radomes both on the belly of the plane and mounted _atop_ it as well.  I believe this was actually used off of Vietnam!

Madoc  

[Radish]

VB-17 was used for a personal transport during the early stages of the Vietnam war, and the use by the CIA has never been truly documented....perhaps it never will. The CIA used black (what else?) B-17s and they had red serials on a number plate.....easy for changing you see. They were used in SE Asia at least up to the mid-60s I believe.
 

[elmayerle]

VB-17 was used for a personal transport during the early stages of the Vietnam war, and the use by the CIA has never been truly documented....perhaps it never will. The CIA used black (what else?) B-17s and they had red serials on a number plate.....easy for changing you see. They were used in SE Asia at least up to the mid-60s I believe.

I've heard that too, and that they had a leather-covered, badded drop hatch in place of the bottom turret for dropping off agents.

[Daryl J.]

With the gunner postions removed, I've heard the weight savings alone increased the B-17 cruise speed by nearly 100mph.   With light weight avionics and no turtle deck, the speed would increase somewhat.   Conceptually, what was in my mind was a fast(ish) medium/light bomber or alternate payload altogether.  (Molsen's Canadian, anyone?)

The Evergreen Aviation museum used to fly their B-17 above rural Forest Grove, OR (USA) and really toss that thing around.  It's amazingly maneuverable when pressed.    They'd head right for the Coast Range foothills, stand it on a wing, and would ''bounce'' it 180 degrees around in no time at all.   One could tell when they were about to do that because the engines would throttle up significantly, speed up, pitch up, wing down, and just like that it was heading the opposite direction.   Right then and there I decided it must have been every bit the amazing aircraft history says it was.

Nocturnal CIA personell delivery sounds interesting.
With contraprops, one could revert to the B-17B/C/D tail too.

Were there ever nuclear antisubmarine air drop torpedos developed?

The only jet I'd put in the tail would be an APU.


Firefighter perchance?   Load too small for that?


Anyhoo.........have a great weekend guys!
Daryl J.    

[aerofile83]

I plan on building a ground attack version of the B-17.  The basic idea behind this is a cross between B-26 counter invader and an A/C-47 spooky. The concept being something that could pound the crap out of the hochi-min trail replacing two different airframes.

I plan on a few upgrades like a martin b-57 style rotary bomb bay. I also plan on using the ball turret all a moving spotlight. She'll be heavily load with guns on the left side of the plane just like good ol' spooky. Because most if not all of the usaf's b-17 would have already headed to the bone yard the modified airframes would have had to come from other countries like Israel and brazil. Can you guys thinks of any other modifications that might have been made. How bout clipped wing for increased low level handling?


:ar: casey :ar: