Saunders-Roe Princess WHIF Ideas

[GTX]

As an extension to my concept of a Maritime Patrol version of the SARO SR.45 Princess - superbly brought to life by John (reproduced here):



What if this and other large flying boats were produced after the war in either military or civilian guises?  What if SARO also produced their Duchess and P.192 designs?

Duchess:



P.192:




I think these would make superb long range patrollers or civilian transports.

Regards,

Greg

[Daryl J.]

Protect the P.192 with parasite Sea Darts or the like and base it out of Coos Bay, OR, Whidby Island, WA,  Juneau, AK, and San Francisco, CA for the Yanks to deter offshore 'fishing vessels' from the USSR as well as Vancouver, BC.   Perhaps the Norwegians would buy some too.

What an awesome airborne battleship that would make!

Daryl J.

[Mossie]

Maybe the Short Shetland could have been converted to turboprops or jets?  Not in the same league as the big Saro 'boats but pretty large none-the-less.







There was a civil version planned too.

[Mossie]

Posted some flying boat videos here:
http://www.whatifmodelers.com/forum//index...=ST&f=3&t=18016

[Andrew Gorman]

There was talk of taking at least one of the SARO Princesses out of mothballs and converting them to atomic power!  There are some technical drawings available at
up-ship.com
And one of the big six engine Latecoere flying boats are also on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKJQtnUulDo
Sadly not the more graceful 631
http://www.pionnair-ge.com/spip1/spip.php?article61
Andrew

[royabulgaf]

Those things were monsters.  However, look at it this way-  The US Navy never got interested in large patrol aircraft post-war, never buying any of the strategic bombers and modifying them to patrol aircraft.  Although I am sure that the first generation jetliners could have been converted to patrol aircraft, the USN has been content with the P-3 for over 40 years.   I guess there is no pressing Naval need for something that big.

Kim M

[Joe C-P]

Well, the USN did try out the SeaMaster, though as a runway-less large bomber. They had plenty of aircraft carriers, too.

I've thought about redoing one of the pre-WW2 trans-Pacific flying boats as a commando bird - add a few guns, including a top turret, and a nose that opens up somehow.

JoeP

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Would it have been practical to incorporate a rear access door or ramp at the aft end of the aircraft?  At aft end of the Princess where it meets with the tail empennage, it would appear that there is sufficient room to create an access ramp for entry and exit from the aircraft.  No, not a cargo ramp such as what you find on a Hercules or Belfast, more like an access door as you would find on the C-5 Galaxy or C-141 Starlifter where it is enshrouded behind a fairing that opens up to let the ramp down.  Something that would be used when the aircraft is on the water for embarking or disembarking of passengers and cargo.  Would this have been practical for a large flying boat such as the Princess and others of similar size?

[Mossie]

Two real projects, a land based cargo plane & believe it or not, a zwilling!





Jeff, regarding an access ramp on the original, I think it could be done with a slight redesign of the rear fuselage.  The Princess had two decks so you may have a bit of re-jigging to do with the hull, but it's possible.  To make it pratical, the Princess would need an amphibious capability, or docks with specially designed bays, similar to ro-ro ferries.

The land plane version above may well have been a successful aircraft & would have been comparable with the C-124 Globemaster II in size & arrangement.  The zwilling, well, a flying boat would be better than a land based version in terms of ground handling, but it'd be a beast & a half.  Still, to see it flying....

[Mossie]

I've been reading up a little on the Princess recently.  Saro basically did all they could do to try & keep the the Princess alive once it was obvious that that it was obsolete.  They'd put a lot of money it & had several hulks rusting on the Isle of Wight.  A last ditch attempt was made to sell them to Aero Spacelines as transports for the Saturn V program.  Unfortunately, the remaining mothballed aircraft where found to be too heavilly corroded to be of use.  Instead, Aero Spacelines converted Boeing 377 Stratocruisers into the Guppy series.

I don't know if the Princesses would have simply been brought back into service, or heavilly modified like the B-377.  The high wing would have resisted attempts to put a bulbous extension on top of the aircraft in the same manner as the Guppy.

[pyro-manic]

This month's issue of Aeroplane magazine has a nice section on the Princess. Some very nice photos, and some interesting information. I wish they'd kept one as a museum or something. Apparently they were in very good condition until they were de-cocooned, but then they deteriorated rapidly and were broken up soon afterwards.

The Princess is one of the very few aircraft I wouldn't actually whiff if I was to build a model of it - the reason being that it's got my name on it! I do intend to build a model of it one day, but I suspect that it will be many years in the future before I'm good enough to attempt it.

[GTX]

the reason being that it's got my name on it!

I'm almost afraid to ask...Princess???

Regards,

Greg

[Mossie]

Princess ALUN!!!!  Next in line to the throne of Radish's Queen Caroline!?!?!   New member title!!!!

You know Alun, it's just that article I've been reading & I thought of you when I read it!  It was saddening reading about those airframes that eventually rotted, not because it wasn't a wonderful machine, but because time had overtaken it.  Similar with the Bristol Brabazon too.

I've been wondering about a Maritime Patrol Princess, basically turn it into something very similar to the Shetland pic I posted before.  A turret in the tail, two on the dorsal fuselage & and one in a nose fairing.  Laden her up with enough mines & depth charges to sink half the Kreigsmarine.  Should be a very useful convoy escort too with enough legs for a transatlantic flight & a little time to linger too.

PS, G-ALUN was the registration of the first Princess.

[PR19_Kit]

I may have posted this somewhere else in the Forum, but here it bears repeating perhaps.

When I was around 12 or 13 I went on an RAF children's holiday camp, which was held at RAF Calshot, and as a result spent a lot of time whizzing round the Solent on various ASRs that were based there. But the Princesses were also there, in fact it was difficult to miss them towering above the hangars at the end of the Spit.

At that time, which must have been 1954-5 the cocooning was already in bad shape, the part that was meant to cover the lowest part of the hull was hanging in tatters from the chine edge of the hull leaving the aluminium exposed to the elements, and to me!

Having seen G-ALUN fly at Farnborough I was surprised to see the others so close and I determined to get even closer, so one morning early I went down to the Spit and wriggled my way through the surrounding fences, not difficult at that age, and ducked under the edge of the cocooning till I was up against the hull itself. Standing there with one hand actually touching a Princess flying boat was quite something, and of course I've never washed that hand since.

My dreaming was brought to an abrupt halt by the sound of an RAF Corporal right behind me shouting 'What the %%*^$ devil do you think you're doing in there, you &*^"£" little 'erbert?!' I was hauled out from under the cocooning and shoved onto the next bus back to the camp with the proverbial flea in my ear, but as far as I was concerned it was 'Mission Acomplished'!

I've always thought it was G-ALUN that I touched, but reading the Aeroplane article makes it clear that she was always across the Solent at SARO's East Cowes Yard, and that 'my' Princess must have been G-ALUO or G-ALUP.

[GTX]

Some interesting viewing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV1eUeo27tc

regards,

Greg