Saab Draken WHIF Ideas

ChernayaAkula · November 03, 2008, 10:01:36 AM

Quote from: GTX on November 03, 2008, 01:57:14 AM
How many more? <...>

Those wing-tip launchers look great! Combined with the Super Draken concept from page 1 of this thread.....

sotoolslinger · November 03, 2008, 03:13:09 PM

Just so you know I have been thinking about this for too long, I had to start it

I will probably leave of the canards

ChernayaAkula · November 03, 2008, 07:01:27 PM

^ Insanely cool!

sotoolslinger · November 04, 2008, 03:17:44 AM

Thank you sir please check Current and Finished Projects for official thread

Sauragnmon · January 06, 2009, 11:41:53 PM

So, now that you boys have had your fun with Westernized Super Draken concepts... I've got one to sound off around your skulls, and here it goes.

I'm soon to be getting my hands on a Hase Draken, through a contact of mine. I sat and thought to myself, how would I whif a Draken - Drakens already are pretty damn cool, to me, but I want to ramp it out. I came to a thought, a slightly piratical/socialist/capitalist thought:

Finland, in the 90's, sees the Soviets collapsing in the economy. Knowing they need to improve their fighter fleet, they decide to start investing in their old trading partner again, and help revive the economy, while getting things on the cheap. Dealing with Mikoyan Gurevich, they procure modernizations for their MiG-21 fleet, but they go through Sukhoi for an additional modernization, the J35-95, nicknamed Super Draken. Mounting a Saturn-Alyukin AL-31 Engine in the engine mounting, they improve not only thrust and speed, but range, with the improved fuel efficiency of a Turbofan over the original Turbojet engine. Installing IRST and a new radar package, and glass cockpit, they improve the fighter's operational capacity.

Questions and thoughts I am posing with this concept:

AL-31 Engine fit - possible? Would it fit? How much putty-fu would I need to commit to make it believable?

Nosejob - Fulcrum nose or Su-47 nose are the forerunners, housing the new radar package. IRST is inclusive.

Wings - Rebuilding the outer wing is a thought I've entertained, but not sure where I'll go with that right now. Thoughts?

Canards - I have Su-34 and Su-47 canards on hand, can apply bash-fu to mount them, I could also carve my own. I recall reading that the concept Saab entertained for their canard mountings was In Front of the intakes, but outside the intakes is equally a thought.

Other Thoughts to add to this are welcome.

GTX · January 06, 2009, 11:52:14 PM

Not sure of the exact dimensions, though I believe the AL-31 is quite a bit bigger than an Avon.

Regards,

Greg

Fulcrum · January 07, 2009, 12:19:18 AM

It would be cool to see the Super Draken with a mig-29 nose.

(It would be cool too if it were possible to mix more of the mig-29 with the Draken as I would be interested in any of the results, especially with the double-delta wing.)

Sauragnmon · January 07, 2009, 01:24:51 AM

the AL-31 was the first thought off the top of my head - second would be an RD-33, at which point this would be a MiG/Valmet Co-development. I'm entertaining thoughts currently.

sotoolslinger · January 07, 2009, 08:53:57 AM

Anything is possible with enough putty

Sauragnmon · January 07, 2009, 11:00:50 AM

Yes, this is true, anything is workable with enough putty-fu. It's just a matter of how it'll look really, and what I'll have to do to it to make the AL-31 fit in place, really.

GTX · January 15, 2010, 10:47:01 AM

Hi folks,

I was considering the Draken the other day (as is my want to do at times...) and wondered if it would make the good basis for a Stealthy/ow Observable platform. Mayby remove the vertical tail (we can use computers to satisfy that need), slightly cut back/modify the intakes, gold tint the canopy, somehow give it an internal weapons bay, do something about the rear nozzle and apply a liberal dash of suitble re-scribing of panel lines...

Regards,

Greg

elmayerle · January 15, 2010, 11:17:18 AM

Quote from: GTX on January 15, 2010, 10:47:01 AM
I was considering the Draken the other day (as is my want to do at times...) and wondered if it would make the good basis for a Stealthy/ow Observable platform. Mayby remove the vertical tail (we can use computers to satisfy that need), slightly cut back/modify the intakes, gold tint the canopy, somehow give it an internal weapons bay, do something about the rear nozzle and apply a liberal dash of suitble re-scribing of panel lines...

Consider two smaller, canted fins with the intake trunks modified to be made from composites with RAM as one, or more, of the layers and a "flow straightener/radar absorber" after the inlets come together (much like what Boeing was proposing in front of the engine front face on the X/F-32) as a starting point. Blend where the other wings and the inner wings come together to avoid a high-reflectance corner and go with an updated turbofan engine (F404 or F414 would be my first choice) with a LOAN nozzle (you might want to also incorporate AVEN features for improved manueverability). You'd probably need to redo the wing tips to reduce radar spikes, too. It's a heavy redesign, but doable.

apophenia · January 15, 2010, 12:16:10 PM

Quote from: Sauragnmon on January 07, 2009, 01:24:51 AM
the AL-31 was the first thought off the top of my head - second would be an RD-33 ...

RM6C*: length: 3200 mm, diameter: 907 mm (max), weight: 1310 kg (dry)

None of the Russian engines would be easy replacements for RM6 Avons. If it is just a question of supply, the MiG-21's R-11 turbojet's diameter matches the Avon perfectly. Is back-dating the Finnish Drakens an option?

R-11F: length: 4600 mm, diameter: 906 mm, weight: 1124 kg (dry)

AL-31: length: 4990 mm, diameter: 1280 mm (max), weight: 1570 kg (dry)

RD-93: length: 4250 mm, diameter: 1040 mm (max), weight: 1055 kg (dry)

RD-33: length: 4230 mm, diameter: 1040 mm (max), weight: 1055 kg (dry)

* Volvo Flygmotor version of Avon 300

Weaver · January 15, 2010, 05:42:47 PM

For a stealthy Draken, could you cut back the outer edges of the intakes to match the angle of the outer wing leading edge, sort of like an inside-out F-105 intake? That would send the intake lip return off at the same "spike angle" as the outer wings.

norseman · January 24, 2010, 05:09:55 AM

The RB106 model that was looked at for the Draken was the 16,000/23,000lb model (which also would have powered the initial Avro Arrow batch) until it was canned. There was also a growth version of this engine the RB.122 which probably would have been to big for the Draken and was in the 30,000lb reheat regime and would have made a good option for ongoing Avro Arrow versions.
As for a modern rebuild I go for the increased thrust version EJ200 as RR previously did a study on Spey and Avon replacements with this engine to work out the best way to do it regards balance/fitting/fillers etc. (the AMX was the first to be formally offered the swap). Also the Eurojet has 3D TVC on offer and there is growth in the engine for 17,000lb+ dry and 27,000lb reheat (even the standard engine in war mode is good for 15,000lb+ dry and 23,000lb reheat) and it is lighter than the F414 family.