Battleships

[elmayerle]

If instead of being scrapped in 1960, she'd been retained and upgraded at a slow but steady pace on a "just in case" basis.  If memory serves me correctly, she had the proposed hull of the Lion-class that was being studied just before WW II broke out, but with the guns removed from Courageous and Glorious when they were converted to aircraft carriers.  Since there was also a study for a battlecarrier version/conversion of the Lion design, might that serve as a starting point for a conversion in the Seventies of Vanguard into a configuraion, similar to the FACES II conversion proposed for the Iowa's, for carrying SHAR's et al.?

[Nick]

Guess what? There's already a kit of the FACES II Iowa battleships available!
Iowa Battlecarrier

I really wish Vanguard had been kept on, can't you see her in the South Atlantic challenging the Belgrano?

Nick B)  

[elmayerle]

Guess what? There's already a kit of the FACES II Iowa battleships available!
Iowa Battlecarrier

I really wish Vanguard had been kept on, can't you see her in the South Atlantic challenging the Belgrano?

Nick B)

i've got one of those small kits.  As I was saying, I'm looking at a "what-if" where Vanguard wasn't scrapped and was then converted to a battlecarrier along similar lines.  My thought was that the original studies of a Lion-class battlecarrier might provide a leg-up and a basis for the conversion design.

[NARSES2]

Evan

Conway's "All the World's Battleships" simply say's that there were plans to restart Lion and Temeraire in 1945 with a completion date of 1952, and that full details of this design have never been found - the book is circa 1987 - no mention of the battle-Carrier design

As for Vanguard kits - in the dark past there were a couple - possibly by Frog & "Eagle" (shows his age) but they would definately be collectors items now.

Chris

[elmayerle]

Evan

Conway's "All the World's Battleships" simply say's that there were plans to restart Lion and Temeraire in 1945 with a completion date of 1952, and that full details of this design have never been found - the book is circa 1987 - no mention of the battle-Carrier design

As for Vanguard kits - in the dark past there were a couple - possibly by Frog & "Eagle" (shows his age) but they would definately be collectors items now.

Chris

Well, Hybrid Warships had material on it as did one of those A4-siexed paperbacks, this one covering battleships post WW I, that came out some 20 years ago.  I know I have that info, just looking for more.  *G* For those doing French what-ifs, they also had info on a similar study for battlecarrier conversion of the Jean Bart or Richlieu.

[Swamphen]

with the guns removed from Courageous and Glorious

*sighs*

"What Everyone Thinks They Know About HMS Vanguard"

[elmayerle]

Thanks, Swamphen.  I was going by what I'd read elsewhere; what more can I say?  Still, that doesn't change things for what I want to do.

It does, though, suggest a few more possibilities to me.  I wonder if the turrets for Illinois or Kentucky had been constructed when they were cancelled?  I can see those being sold comparatively inexpensively to the British to finish or upgrade the Vanguard.  Say some time in the 50's to help keep her operationally valuable?  Then the battlecarrier conversion would definitly look cool.

[NARSES2]

I've a book on Hybrid designs somewhere Evan - I'll try to find it.

Regarding the guns I've re-checked my ref and it says "15" turrets" I lazily assumed it meant the guns as well, can now see how easy it is for un-truths to become fact. Remind's me of the joke about the Abbot in a monastry who on re-checking the origional copy of the Abbey's rules rather than the oft copied copies, was found banging his head against the wall and muttering "the words celebrate not celibate !

Chris

[Davey B]

I think it've been cool if we decided to equip Vanguard for ASW operations too in the 40s, fit her with a seaplane hangar aft and recycle the turrets into a second, similar ship.  Later stored, the two are reactivated to counter the Kirovs in the 1980s (just missing the Falklands)

Hmm, does anyone have anything on the 'missile ship' proposals for the King George V class ships post-War?

[Joe C-P]

I've tried for some time to find details about the missile conversions of the KGVs, but even Dulin and Garzke's ultra-comprehensive "Allied Battleships of WW2" mentions it only in passing. I'll ask Bill next time I see him, or have my wife email him. (Yeah, yeah, I'm having fun name-dropping.   )

The cover of McLaughlin's "Hybrid Warships" has an image of the hybrid BB-CV.

I did buy a KGV with aims to convert her to a 1970s version - restored and upgraded after USS New Jersey's service in Vietnam, with a Sea Dart installation in place of the twin 14" - but it ended up as USS Virginia. Then I bought another one, but it became mixed with an Iowa and a Rodney to become a Lion.

Vanguard's hull wasn't built to take triple 16"; the best you might do is one of each fore and aft with a major reworking. A 1/700 or 1/600 model of her would make many people very happy.

There was a typo over on Steel Navy that's given me an idea - USS Illustrious.

JoeP

[elmayerle]

Joe,

Does "Hybrid Warships" have info on the proposed BB-CV derived from the Lion-class?  My copy is buried somewhere and I do need the info to look at the Vanguard vconversion.

Thanks,
Evan

[Joe C-P]

Joe,

Does "Hybrid Warships" have info on the proposed BB-CV derived from the Lion-class?  My copy is buried somewhere and I do need the info to look at the Vanguard vconversion.

Thanks,
Evan

Yes, but I don't remember for certain if they include a drawing. I'll take a peep when I get home.

JoeP

[Joe C-P]

There is a side drawing only of a Lion-Illustrious based BB-CV. There is also an outline of one based on HMS Hood, which I might use to convert my partial model of the Hood.

[elmayerle]

There is a side drawing only of a Lion-Illustrious based BB-CV. There is also an outline of one based on HMS Hood, which I might use to convert my partial model of the Hood.

Okay, thanks.  I'd appreciate a scan of that and, if you've got it, a scan of a similar drawing of HMS Vanguard.  I've got a softbound book on 20th century battleships that includes a top view; now I just need to find it

[Joe C-P]

Here's a little version:



I'll post a bigger one later, after I fix this with Photoshop.