Battleships

[Sauragnmon]

OK... I'm building my RN Stockpile, and the thing is, I'm about to wind up with a spare Rodney Class hull, the Tamiya HMS Nelson.  Full armament, likely minus the AA, but I can deal with that.  So, here's where I am, and I'm looking for Ideas.

Top of the list I thought of, was to transom the stern, maybe improve the seakeeping a little.  Another thought was refitting the 6" with the 5.25's if I can talk Tamiya into "replacing" the guns on a King George V, or something to that effect.

Any other ideas?  Let's try a game, "Pimp My Nelson"

[Captain Canada]

What year you going for ?

To me, any large capital has to have a/c. And with Trump making sooo many these days....

[Weaver]

No idea how practical this is in kit terms, but how about "the Reichlieu option":

Replace A and B turrets with quad 14" from KG V, and use the extra space and weight for a SERIOUS AAA upgrade. Since you're using a KG V anyway, nick it's 5.25" and octuple pom-poms too. You could move the bridge forward and adopt a County-style aircraft hanger, but i wouldn't bother with aircraft: most capital ships lost them during the war since there were plenty of carriers/cruisers available.

[jcf]

Super-Monitor with 3 24" guns, one per turret.   

Jon

[Sauragnmon]

Weaver's idea isn't bad... I kinda like that thought, since I'll have the quad 14" guns on hand.  The 5.25" guns are actually going to be used, I have two Rodneys and nothing to do with some of the stuff.  Here's the story of how I have this Rodney hull, and will have the rest of it:

I got my N3, we've seen it if you've seen my thread on the Projects board.  I accidently told him Rodney too many times, when I wanted Nelson, so now I have pretty much an entire Rodney, minus the secondary turrets, which I am doing nothing with.

I'm going to be getting a KGV, with my Nelson, which I am ordering for the pompoms.  The Nelson is already ordered, for its AA.  The KGV I was planning to buy for the purpose of building a Lion, with other parts of my Nelson.

There's no aftermarket supply of 1/700 5.25's that I know, but I would consider borrowing Tamiya's replacement system, if they have one, to acquire a set.  I know the 5.25's performed well, and thought they might make for an interesting refit.

As to year, I'm thinking 30's or 40's, what if the Admiralty hadn't been so skimpy on the Rodney, and had refitted or revised the fitting.

[GTX]

How about a partial aircraft carrier conversion - ala the IJN Ise class:



Regards,

Greg

[Sauragnmon]

I'd have to really extend the aft section to accomodate any decent level of aircraft operation, Greg, and I already have one carrier hybrid project that's foundered for lack of a supplier of sheet materials.  I haven't got a means to get the materials for one, I can't really do a second. 

I'm thinking I might fill over turret C with a half deck and put in some AA mountings, a few additional pom poms and such, if I do the quad 14's thought. 

The other thought would be to increase the length, I might consider contacting Burkhardt and talking about some custom 50cal barrels. 

Alternately, I could always go with the 16" 50's that I have from Mightier Mo, and just give it a long barrelled set of guns.  I think even then, I'd have to refit C Turret with something else, as the guns would be too long for the mounting.

All in all, I think Turret C's gonna have to be refitted with something most every way I look at it.

[pyro-manic]

How about removing C turret, shifting the bridge tower forwards, and adding in an extra funnel and upperworks where it used to be? Stretch the hull slightly to give it a finer form, and make a 16" battlecruiser. Great for chasing down The Twins (Scharnhorst and Gneisenau) or those pesky panzerschiffs. There'd be room for lots of extra AA and secondaries around the new funnel. You could also re-shape the bow slightly, to give a more "high-speed" look.

For a "realistic" refit, I'd say add radar, new rangefinders (both from the later KGVs - Anson or Howe), and maybe a new bow. If we're looking at post-war, or a continuation, then both ships would need a lot of work - they were worn out by 1945, and were scrapped in 1948. A complete re-engining could work, giving higher speed, and a rebuilt superstructure might be in order as well.

[Sauragnmon]

Not a bad idea, really, since I Do have all this extra Rodney-bits piled in the box of the one that's gonna have its B Turret mount chopped out for my Lion build.  Extra stack, some additional AA, do away with the round-backed oiler stern and give it a nice clean transom stern, maybe lengthen her out a little to do it... ok, that's not a bad idea.  I'm liking it.  That should also mean a little less Putty-fu in the project.

[sequoiaranger]

How about my "battlecreeper" idea--only six 16" guns on 35,000 tons, and no increase in speed, but increased armor protection. The idea is that in a war, the bad guys in their fast raiders will have to come **TO** the convoy that the Inflexible is protecting--speed will be relatively irrelevant. The raiders, with their light armor (sacrificed for getaway speed), can't stand toe-to-toe in a gun battle with the Inflexible (that isn't about to abandon the convoy). Might not be "glamorous", but the Inflexible would be a dangerous opponent, and would likely save the day for the convoy to reach home port unmolested.

The extant superstructure of the Nelson/Rodney can just be shifted around (and maybe a hangar put in a la KGV?).


>  http://www.combinedfleet.com/furashita/inflex_f.htm  <

[Sauragnmon]

An interesting idea, SR, but I'm going to wind up with a lot of Rodney-bits, so I'm really thinking something more radical in principle.  Still not a bad thought for convoy protection though.  They Do have to come to the convoy, and at that point you've got this great big brick just sitting there that can soak the hits and pound their lack of armor into submission.

I'm seriously entertaining a thought of either using 8x14/50s or 6x16/50's.  I'd have to get the 14/50s custom machined, so I'm not sure about that, but I've got 10 16/50 barrels that are doing absolutely nothing.

[Mossie]

Someone mentioned the Pytor Velikiy turning up in Venezuela in another thread.  The Kirov Class is often described as a Batllecrusier & it got me thinking, those things need some stonking great gun turrets!  The Dragon 1/700 Kirov kits are worth a go, or someones feeling brave, the Trumpy 1/350 kit.

[Sauragnmon]

Speaking as somebody who has the DML Kirov kit, the places to mount such gun turrets would all come with a price, in truth.

You can't mount it too far up the bow, like where the SA-N-9 weapons mounts are, because you'd nose-down the whole ship with the weight.

You could mount the gun position where the Granit launchers are, supplanting them, but you'd have to raise it, for starters, and then you'd have to reposition the forward Kashtan mountings.  Additionally, you would have to reconsider the mountings for the SA-N-12/S-300F launchers.

You could revise the forward superstructure and mount the gun turret in place of the AK-130 mounting, with little net damage, you'd just have one seriously nervous helicopter pilot and you'd have to aim the turret broadside to facilitate landings easily.

You could also mount a gun turret in place of the helipad, with little net damage, and use the hangar space for munitions magazine.

So, to summarize - it's doable, and you could probably get a three-turret design, two aft one forward, but it'd take some notable revisions to the current design to pull it off cleanly.

[Mossie]

I know I mentioned stonking gun turrets, but I was thinking, they probably wouldn't have to be.  Modern materials & automatic loading would mean you could probably reduce the size of the overall turret quite considerably, as well as making a big weight saving.  I don't know if there is any kind of current gun comparable to that of the WWII Battleships so I don't know what the figures might be.  I guess this could help in placing those guns?

[Sauragnmon]

Well, in truth the output to bore diameter and barrel length of artillery hasn't changed very much over the years.  Though with improved mechanical systems, you could in theory bring the size down a little, using less crew space since you have mechanized munitions handling.  Alternately, you can also improve performance through some of the beautiful influences of one Gerald Bull, such as a full-bore barrel, removing the driving bands, which allows you to use higher power propellants, and base-bleed munitions which would extend range and improve accuracy, or go further with a Rocket Assisted round.  Unfortunately they haven't really done much to improve the explosive yield, so we don't have 155mm rounds that hit with all the explosive force of a good old 406mm round, so the large bore would have effectiveness still.  Length of barrel still goes towards ranged performance, and holding to a 45-50 caliber gun barrel, with modern rounds, could provide a range in excess of 100km in a modernized 406mm/16" gun.  Add things like a guided munitions package, you have a 16" round, hitting inside a CEP of 5m, at a range of ~80km.  Kinda scary, if you think about it.