Oddball Interceptors

[jcf]

B-47 seems an obvious candidate, armed with a bellyful of rail-mounted Falcons ala the 102 and 106.

Jon

IIRC there was a proposal to use the B-47 as a long range interceptor back in the 50's, I'm sure it's mentioned in Dennis Jenkins' XB-70 book.



O.K.

More of a suggestion than a proposal, its mentioned in passing on page 54 of the XB-70 book.

Jon

[dy031101]

Was looking for this thread until finding it in the general modelling section......

Joe baugher page on the B-58 http://home.att.net/~jbaugher2/b58.html

voila...

No, not the entire B-58 entry, but thanks anyway......

Nevertheless, would have appeared that someone did think about a B-58 interceptor for real...... guess I should pay a visit to that hobby store right next to Pearson Airport......

[dy031101]

Even a very long range missile like the AIM-54 could be carried without the aerodynamic penalties of conventional fighters.  I guess that could be said for any aircraft with a weapons bay.

That reminded me- for a time Jane's had claimed that Japanese tried to arm their P-3s with AIM-54.

Now...... Archibald brought up Nord Griffon in the hot research section.  I've long fancied mixed-powered interceptors...... only if they didn't come up with afterburner/reheat until much later......

As I said in Archibald's thread, I've been trying to imagine a hybrid between forward fuselage of Hawker P.1103 and Griffon propulsion scheme and control surfaces...... arm it with with either Red-Hebe/Red-Top combo or Skyflash/Sidewinder combo and voila......

For a time I even tried imagining a Typhoon or EAP with Griffon propulsion scheme.

Another ramjet interceptor that came to my mind was Lippisch P.13b...... it was designed around a power source for a country that was running out of oil......  Couldn't help to wonder how it could have been armed if it was actually built.  Designs of the time have two Mk-108s and/or Mk-103 cannons, but certainly more would be added to the mix? R4M AA rockets? X-4 AAM?  Even heavier cannons for shooting down bombers?  What if the design was to have an offspring/successor?

[elmayerle]

Even a very long range missile like the AIM-54 could be carried without the aerodynamic penalties of conventional fighters.  I guess that could be said for any aircraft with a weapons bay.

That reminded me- for a time Jane's had claimed that Japanese tried to arm their P-3s with AIM-54.

That reminds me of a thought I've had - combine an AEW P-3 with a nose installation of an AN/APG-71 so as to allow both multiple threat tracking and attack of the most critical ones and load AIM-54s on the wing and weapons bay stores racks.  Since, I believe, they AIM-54 can accept handoffs, you could, when close enough to land, also work with the proposed (to Japan) Hughes-McDD Nike-Phoenix, a major upgrade of the Nike-Hercules using Phoenix avionics and upgrading the solid fuel rockets and 'most everything else.

[dy031101]

That reminds me of a thought I've had - combine an AEW P-3 with a nose installation of an AN/APG-71 so as to allow both multiple threat tracking and attack of the most critical ones and load AIM-54s on the wing and weapons bay stores racks.  Since, I believe, they AIM-54 can accept handoffs, you could, when close enough to land, also work with the proposed (to Japan) Hughes-McDD Nike-Phoenix, a major upgrade of the Nike-Hercules using Phoenix avionics and upgrading the solid fuel rockets and 'most everything else.

That's one killer AEW......

Now I'll just have to find a sleek jet/pusher-prop to derive your killer-brilliant idea from.  

Which leads me to something similiar in configuration to, say, Gulfstream CAEW&C (just in terms of configuration, not necessarily size).

What's contained in the nose of Gulfstream CAEW&C?  (i.e. would it be okay to replace whatever in the nose radome with AN/APG-71, if possible?)

[GTX]

What's contained in the nose of Gulfstream CAEW&C? (i.e. would it be okay to replace whatever in the nose radome with a fire control radar for AIM-54?)

The Israeli CAEW&Cprobably has an element of it's phased array radar in the nose - you may not need to replace it at all, but rather give it a upgrade in order to be able to guide missiles.  Instead of an ancient thing such as the AIM-54, why not go with something like the MBDA Meteor or an Israeli equivalent (maybe a ramjet Derby?)?

Meteor:



Derby:


Regards,

Greg

[Daryl J.]

Since the Russians gave the West a X-mas present by successfully testing an ICBM, perhaps there should be a sphere of defence involving the following interceptors:

Nimrods patrolling the most likely routes of entry into N. America 24 hours a day with ASAT/Aicbm capability coupled with high speed point defence interceptors to remove the remnant of what made it through consisting of CF-105's and B-58's and requisite anti-missile rocketry.

Speed!!!!  




Daryl J.

[dy031101]

Instead of an ancient thing such as the AIM-54, why not go with something like the MBDA Meteor or an Israeli equivalent (maybe a ramjet Derby?)?

The original idea was to work with both a long-range AAM and a long-range high-alttitude SAM (like the Nike-Phoenix proposal as described by elmayerle).

Nimrods patrolling the most likely routes of entry into N. America 24 hours a day with ASAT/Aicbm capability coupled with high speed point defence interceptors to remove the remnant of what made it through consisting of CF-105's and B-58's and requisite anti-missile rocketry.

Speed!!!!

Was always wondering how AIM-47 and its associated fire control system would have been developed into if the target was...... say, incoming warheads.

[Shasper]

The various systems you speak of were the basis for the AWG-9 & AIM-54.

Shas B)

[dy031101]

The various systems you speak of were the basis for the AWG-9 & AIM-54.

I meant if the designed target was something that flies even higher...... something like...... ballistic missile warheads......

I've made revision to my previous post accordingly.

[GTX]

Maybe you should have a read of this thread - more here too.

Regards,

Greg

[elmayerle]

Well, supposedly the YF-12s did get good locks on LGM-130s launching out of Vandenburg, which suggests that such a combination might work well for at least a limited BPI effort.  And Avro Canada was looking at a dedicated ABM missile that could be fired from the Arrow, esp. the more advanced models, Randall Whitcomb, or some other artist, did an illustration of it that I've posted here before.  ISTR that it derived, somewhat, from the upper stage of a Nike-Zeus.  I think suitable high-altitude/high-speed interceptors could manage quite well against a limited strike, esp. with some of the modern ABM warheads, but you'd need a lot of them to deal with a full-out "WW III" launching.

[elmayerle]

The various systems you speak of were the basis for the AWG-9 & AIM-54.

Actually, I believe the AWG-9/AIM-54 is a convergence between the radar and missiles for the F6D and the AN/ASG-18/AIM-47 package of the F-108/YF-12.

[dy031101]

Recent flipping-through of BSP: Jet Fighters Since 1945 got me kinda interested in research aircraft that had provision to be turned into interceptors.

AFAIK (which means correct me if I'm wrong), the one that is closest to being in service is probably the French Trident- six pre-production aircraft were ordered with provisions for a radar and an AAM armament.  Designs tendered for the British F.155T included a straight-forward adaptation of Fairey Delta II as well as its evolution, and many ER.134T research aircraft designs included modular features that allowed them to be quickly "militarized" (the evolution of Boulton-Paul P.128 would have actually been fairly similar to the French Trident, with wingtip turbojet and booster rockets in the tail)......

Maverick illustrated his imagination of Griffon interceptors as well. (Again, great profiles, Mav  )

Wikipedia claims that if Bell X-5 didn't have some vicious handling qualities, there would have been plans to turns the design into a tactical aircraft.

So...... what do you think?  Has there been any other research aircraft, whether from the East or West, that was designed with the possibility of being modified into tactical fighter/interceptor in mind?  Has there been any research aircraft that had potential but whose [insert the name(s) of components here] failed to do the planes justice?

Participation is welcomed as always.

[jcf]

Bell did work on proposals to turn the X-5 design into a fighter armed with guns or 46 folding-fin rockets.

As to big interceptors there was Lockheed's P-3 based Missileer proposal, the CL 520 with ten Bendix Eagle missiles.

Scott Lowther has posted renderings of proposed armed aircraft based on the X-19 on his blog:
http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=44

Jon