Gloster Javelin

[Old Wombat]

Nah, that's normal! The tail was so big the weight kept flipping the planes over shortly after take-off & it was easier to fly them inverted than struggle to keep them upright.

[rickshaw]

Nah, that's normal! The tail was so big the weight kept flipping the planes over shortly after take-off & it was easier to fly them inverted than struggle to keep them upright.

Really?  I understood that Javelins were forbidden to undertake aerobatics such as inverted flight...   

[PR19_Kit]

Weren't some Javelins banned from sustained inverted flight?

Something to do with lubrication  systems on some versions of the engines. Darned if I know where I read that but it may come back to me.

[Steel Penguin]

all I can hear id the pilot saying to the home office chappie in the back ( whos being very unhelpful)  " there you go  you can see your house from here ! " 

[Nick]

Javelins were barred from certain aerobatic moves such as looping. Something about the controls meant that the aircraft would resist the pilot pulling on the stick when he needed to carry on down to finish the loop.
They were also notoriously difficult to get out of a stall. The only working escape method was to force the bird into a spin and use it to get the nose pointing down to increase airflow and speed. Even then the risks were high and several pilots died that way.

I really think that Gloster were way out of their depth with the Javelin and had limited understanding of the aerodynamics. IIRC at one point they were ahead with building the later models while still producing the earlier marks.

[PR19_Kit]

They were also notoriously difficult to get out of a stall. The only working escape method was to force the bird into a spin and use it to get the nose pointing down to increase airflow and speed. Even then the risks were high and several pilots died that way.

Early indications of what became known as the 'Deep Stall' experienced by a number of T-tailed airliners. A Deep Stall with a BAC 1-11 prototype killed Mile Lithgow amongst others.

[Weaver]

Trying to improve the Javelin with the benefit of hindsight is quite an interesting exercise, although whether the end result would be worth the cost and effort is another matter, of course.

Javelins were barred from certain aerobatic moves such as looping. Something about the controls meant that the aircraft would resist the pilot pulling on the stick when he needed to carry on down to finish the loop.
They were also notoriously difficult to get out of a stall. The only working escape method was to force the bird into a spin and use it to get the nose pointing down to increase airflow and speed. Even then the risks were high and several pilots died that way.

I really think that Gloster were way out of their depth with the Javelin and had limited understanding of the aerodynamics. IIRC at one point they were ahead with building the later models while still producing the earlier marks.

If you stalled on approach to finals you were dead, so they installed a warning hooter that sounded if you were going too slowly with the gear down. Back-seaters discovered that they could replicate the sound of the hooter with a harmonica, so they used to carry one and use it to scare rookie pilots who they thought were making excessively careful approaches.

Another trick the back-seaters learned was that, although they had no flying controls in the back, they could get access to the control rods by unscrewing a panel on the side console. They then used this to liven up otherwise dull patrols by giving the rudder or ailerons a playful tug if the pilot seemed to be nodding off or wasn't doing enough to keep them entertained...

[Old Wombat]

I really think some people are taking me far too seriously.

[PR19_Kit]

I really think some people are taking me far too seriously.

Javelins are a bit like Marmite, there are only two opinions of them. You either ADORE the amazing devices, or you DETEST them and the air space they occupy. 

[Zero-Sen]

[PR19_Kit]

Influenced by a recent Whiffie nomination? 

[Old Wombat]

I don't think the Javelin really works BUT adding the Javelin nose & cockpit to the Phantom fuselage? I think you're really onto something, there!    

[Stan in YUL]

Where has this been all my life: I think I'm in love!

[Rheged]

This is a superb piece of work,  and worthy of immortalisation in styrene and backstory.


The only practical disadvantage of this machine is that the navigator no longer has the opportunity to strike the driver's ankles a sharp tap with his plotting ruler if they do something inappropriate.   I'm told that the occupant of the Sea Vixen coal hole found this an admirable way to keep their chauffeur in order.

[The Wooksta!]

I quite frankly loathe the Javelin. Contemptible pile of junk, the RAF should have got the Vixen.