Pykrete and Project Habbakuk

cthulhu77 · July 27, 2009, 05:34:11 PM

Well, the brits were yapping about flying B-24's and Lancaster's off of it. But all in all, it was a tremendously fun idea that made no sense.

I am really looking forward to seeing the models !!!!

seadude · July 29, 2009, 06:26:32 PM

I've been going to a lot of forums and asking for help in regards to the Habbakuk AC model I'm building. A lot of people have told me to find and/or buy:
"Warship Vol 5, No 18, 1981 pp80-85
Habakkuk by W J Wallace"
.......that had articles about Project Habbakuk and Pykrete.
Unfortuneately, there is nowhere near me that has those issues, not even a library.
Is there anyone here who has those issues and could copy the Habbakuk articles from them and send me copies? I would greatly appreciate it.

Please send me a PM to discuss any further details. Thanks.

rickshaw · July 30, 2009, 03:33:04 AM

I have a copy of that. Unfortunately its currently in storage at my Brother's and he's away on holidays for the next few days. I've sent him an email asking him to scan it. Once I have it, I'll provide it to you.

seadude · July 30, 2009, 04:31:44 AM

Thanks for the assist.

If there's any pics/sketches/plans in the articles, can you ask him to try to get good clarity/quality of those? Thanks.

seadude · July 31, 2009, 07:34:43 PM

I'm getting closer.........to a decision, that is.

Another person on a different What If type forum mentioned the following info. to me:

QuoteWallace's Warship article says of the outer layer:
Quote
The outside hull would be insulated by a complex 9in thick composite material, made of plywood and insulation boards (masonite type) in 27 layers. This tough outer shell would dovetail together and be attached to the hull by 1ft 6in dowels embedded in the ice.

After thinking over that for a long time, I then got to thinking about mine countermeasures ships. IIRC, some ships had special non-magnetic/steel hulls. I did a search and began reading about the US Navy "Avenger Class" MCM ships which have the following:

QuoteThe hull is constructed of wood with an external coat of fibreglass. Oak, Douglas Fir and Alaskan Cedar woods were selected for the hull because of their flexibility and strength combined with low weight. This allows it to withstand the blast from naval mines and also gives it a low magnetic signature.

After searching around the Net for Avenger pics, I found out that their wood hulls are are indeed painted with anti-fouling paints......and red too!
Sooooo..........I'm beginning to think that I may as well just paint the lower portion of the Habbakuk hull below the boot topping line, red. Probably not a bright red as seen on some model ships, but rather a slightly darker shade of red, perhaps.

Now for the other bad news: I'm thinking of switching to a different gray for the hull and superstructure ABOVE the boot topping line. I was originally going to use Tamiya TS-32 Haze Gray, but now I'm undecided.

JayBee · August 12, 2009, 02:25:54 PM

Seadude,
PM on it's way.

Weaver · October 13, 2010, 12:22:13 PM

BBC science series Bang Goes the Theory have just tried to make and sail a pykrete boat! Didn't work, but it floated and it's worth a look: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00vdlt3

The Rat · October 13, 2010, 12:42:52 PM

Quote from: Weaver on October 13, 2010, 12:22:13 PM
BBC science series Bang Goes the Theory have just tried to make and sail a pykrete boat! Didn't work, but it floated and it's worth a look: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00vdlt3

"Not available in your area"

seadude · October 14, 2010, 09:43:04 PM

I already have a printout of an article about that BBC endeavor, and it's here:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1316517/Ice-boat-sinks-sea-BBC-presenters-ship-melts.html

rickshaw · October 14, 2010, 09:56:32 PM

Mythbusters tried a similar stunt in Alaska. Their boat lasted longer than the BBC one because the water was colder and they used a stronger version of Pykrete with layers of wet newspaper being frozen but it still lacked refrigeration and so ended up melting after about an hour IIRC. Neither test IMO was a valid test of the theory for the reasons mentioned in the newspaper article. When someone gets around to building a 1,000+ ton one, then we might see if it would work.

Weaver · October 15, 2010, 03:15:57 AM

True, although the reason for the failure of the BBC one wasn't melting, it was because they'd miscalculated where to put the engine mounts: it was nearly uncontrollable, then it started flooding (becaue the engine mounts were underwater) and the engine cut out. The hull would have lasted long enough to accomplish the mission, which was only to sail across a harbour and take a salute.

seadude · November 07, 2010, 12:36:07 PM

Got a question for everyone.

Because of the amount of trouble I'm having building the propulsion pods for my Habakkuk model, I'm thinking I may not finish and add them at all. No matter how hard I try, I just can't seem to make them work.

There's no point in going any further I guess, so I'm giving up.

I've kinda wondered lately about the following: Although the Habakkuk was designed with some form of propulsion by having propulsion pods along the sides of the ship, The Habakkuk would've only had a top speed of no more than 6-7 knots. Because of that slow speed plus the fact that the Habakkuk is such a huge aircraft carrier (2000 ft. long x 300 ft. wide), I'm thinking that it might be classified more as a "floating island" rather than a ship per se. What does everyone else think?

JayBee · November 07, 2010, 01:23:02 PM

Seadude,
I do not know about these floaty things, but I do have to say that a floating island idea is not a winner.
Speaking from an air traffic control (my profesion) point of view therunway has to point into wind.
So get your ar5e into gear and get those powerpods fitted.

JimB

PR19_Kit · November 08, 2010, 04:40:46 AM

Dunno about an island, it's big enough to be a nation state in its own right!

sequoiaranger · November 08, 2010, 07:32:40 AM

Seadude---PLEASE don't "give up". Your project is eminently worthy of your time and effort.

One reason ship-model folks opt for "waterline" models is that they can dispense with the lower hull and propulsion machinery altogether. *IF* you model the lower hull, you really must show the propulsion. The Habakkuk had an unusual propulsion system, so it behooves a modeler to represent it (otherwise, you might as well get a big saw and trim back your model to the waterline--NOT recommended).

You have the pods, and you have the props. "All" you need now are driveshafts and supports. "All" you really need, methinks, is a box of round and a box of flat toothpicks!! The round ones can be the driveshafts, and the flat ones the "V" supports. Sure there are a lot of pods to do, but you work a "series" of modules like an assembly line, and just do it!

*I* think the results will fascinate spectators, and really enhance the model. I know with my "exhaustive" USS Enterprise build, more and more things kept coming up that I felt I HAD to replicate, and those things were often tedious, but the "big picture" was that I *KNEW* when I was done that they would enhance the model.

Keep plugging away!