UH-1 'Huey' and AH-1 'Cobra' (Bell and Augusta built aircraft) all versions

[dy031101]

I think my post has got buried within another discussion, anyone got any comments on a navalised Huey, Westland or otherwise?

What is the potential of battlefield surveillance radars for conversion into AEW gears?  As part of my thinking about Shipbucketing what-if ROCN carriers/hybrids, I am wondering a version of UH-1N- or even UH-1H-based SOTAS......

(Although I was told that it's criminal to think about using single-engine choppers for shipboard use, the ROCN has been using the 500MD/ASW on ships that can't take the S-70......)

Then I've got a couple questions about the Australian Bushrangers- I've heard that the miniguns of the modified XM21 weapon system was fixed rather than flexible as in the original XM21...... can anyone confirm that?

Speaking of utility choppers with ATGMs, how would it have been like if the Australian Bushrangers were modified to fire TOWs?

[Mossie]

There have been quite a few single engined naval helicopters, especially in the timeframe of early Hueys.  Sikorsrky HO2S, Bristol Sycamore, Westland Wasp, Sikorsky S-55 all come to mind so a Huey should be possible.

Fitting AEW radar on a helicopter in the late fifties/early sixties might be doable.  I can't think of any helicopters that fit the role in this period in the real world but something like the Fairey Gannet might be able to swap it's radar into a helicopter with a squeeze.  Probably something larger than a short Huey though.

Later on, there shouldn't be much problem in fitting an AEW radar into a UH-1N, although it might be a squeeze getting the operators in there.

[dy031101]

Later on, there shouldn't be much problem in fitting an AEW radar into a UH-1N, although it might be a squeeze getting the operators in there.

The timeframe I'm thinking about is around that of the HMS Invincible.  Don't know if the US Army's use of the JUH-1 would have inspired someone else before the advent of the Sea King AEW though.

[PR19_Kit]

Using the configuration of the Kamov Ka-31 (Helix-B) with the folding flat plate radar under the fuselage, almost anything could be an AEW platform. I think there's a version of the Puma with a similar, but smaller setup as well.

You'd need something with a hefty ground (deck...) clearance of course, not sure that a 'normal' Huey has enough with its skids, but as this is Whiffland, so extended skids like a Jet Ranger, or even a wheeled setup might work.

[Later] After thinking about this for at least 30 seconds  it occurs to me that a retractable landing gear of some sort would be almost essential or the radome wouldn't be able to rotate!  What a pillock I can be at times......

So that's the skids idea out the window anyway, and even a fixed gear setup wouldn't work. That's why the Kamov has fully foldable gear and the Puma has its radome mounted way aft on the fuselage pod.

[dy031101]

The JUH-1 SOTAS uses retractable skids to allow for the rotating antenna.

[Mossie]

Did you mean the Horizon battlefield radar Kit?  The AdT has four Cougars so equipped.  The radar folds up under the tail so you don't need any extra ground clearance, as opposed to the Ka-31's radar that is quite slim & fits under the fuselage.  Dy, do you know how the SOTAS radar folded?

[dy031101]

Dy, do you know how the SOTAS radar folded?

AFAIK, it doesn't but is instead held parallel to the fuselage to allow the skids to deploy.  The skids are apparently built with extended height as well to provide ground clearance for the radar antenna.

I wonder if the SOTAS radar antenna is semi-retractable to help with the clearance, too......

[PR19_Kit]

Mossie,

Yes, that's the thingie. I thought it was a Puma, but I never could tell the difference

My younger brother has a monstrous rambling farmhouse, part derelict, in the South of France, about 45 nms east of Mont de Marsan. The place is miles away from any large town, and there's a small hill in his grounds with a radar reflector permanently mounted on it, for which the AdT pay him a few hundred Euros a year. Every now and then a bunch of guys arrive in various choppers and abseil down onto his hill, sometimes lthe chopper lands and the crew pop in for a cafe or two.

While I was there the October before last one of those Horizon Cougars was hovering in range of the abseiling guys, but sadly never got close enough for photos. It certainly looks weird when the radar is deployed.

[Mossie]

There's nowt much in it, to be honest the only way I can tell the unstretched Cougar & Puma apart is if the blurb in the caption says so!

[Weaver]

Cougar/Super Puma has a pointier radar nose, deeper main gear pods, ventral fin extension and a "flying saucer" over the rotor hub.

[kitnut617]

If I ever get my Petrel finished --- but this is what I had in mind for a 'localized' AWAC.

And there was this Mohave variant:

[Jeffry Fontaine]

do you know how the SOTAS radar folded?

The SOTAS APS-94 RADAR did not fold, it could rotate after it was extended for flight on a very small centrally located mast or stem.  When landing the entire antenna was retracted up flush with the bottom of the fuselage with the landing skids extended.  The landing skids allowed the aircraft to sit a bit higher off the ground to give the APS-94 antenna enough clearance between the aircraft and the ground. 

[dy031101]

When landing the entire antenna was retracted up flush with the bottom of the fuselage with the landing skids extended.

That's what I suspected. 

[MAD]

When browsing the web regarding an unrelated topic, I came across this......

D-255...... it's said to be the first mockup that at last led to the AH-1, and I found it looking surprisingly similar to the later Mi-24......

So pairing it with a Malyutka-inspired ATGM system on under-stubwingtip rails, in a manner similar to the Mi-24......

Hay I was just wondering
If the Italian Army or Air Force had put the AH-1 Cobra (there is a very good chance that they could have been license-built by Augusta!) into service in its contributing factor to NATO for use in the anti-tank / escort role.
I wonder if Italy would have been willing to sell its Augusta-built Cobra's to the likes of Libya – as it did with its AB.204/205 (Bell UH-1 Iroquois) and I think the Italian license-built CH-47 Chinook to the likes of Libya.
If this was the case then there could have been a very good chance that the Soviets could have acquired very workable copies for either self –development into a 'Cobraski' or at least studied in detail by the GRU.
This could have lead to the Bell D-255 / Mi-24 'Hind' style cockpit arrangement in their 'Cobraski'!

M.A.D

[dy031101]

This could have lead to the Bell D-255 / Mi-24 'Hind' style cockpit arrangement in their 'Cobraski'!

Did the Red Army make extensive use of specialized observation helicopters?  I can see it filling the niche in scouting and escorting the Mi-24 as the latter provide fire support for the ground troops, but I'm not informed enough to know if I'm correct in thinking so.