UH-1 'Huey' and AH-1 'Cobra' (Bell and Augusta built aircraft) all versions

[dy031101]

I've been imagining how cool it would have looked to arm UH-1N with XM16 or XM21 weapon system.

Then I saw several pictures of UH-1N carrying two rocket pods and two 12.7mm MGs.  It would appear to me that the MGs can be positioned pointing forward when the passenger doors are closed.

Question One: can the MGs be replaced with M134 miniguns?

Question Two: can the MGs be trained (vertically and in a limited manner like the MGs on XM16 and XM21) and fired by the pilot/copilot when the MGs are positioned pointing forward?

Actually, does anyone have line drawings for UH-1 gunships with XM16 and XM21 systems respectively?

Thanks in advance.

[Maverick]

I have seen UH-1Ns with cabin mounted flex M-134s for the rear crews and I can't think of any reason why the forward mountings off a -1D with M-134s & FFARs couldn't be used.  I've got a book on US helo gunships that I'll have a squiz thru and see if i can't scan up some stuff.

[jcf]

Dunno if this site will be of help or the M16 and M21:

http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csa/aawpns.htm

Is this the .50 MG and pod installation you refer to?

If so, it looks like the gun is manual control only.

Evidently the 7.62mm GAU-17A Gatlings installed on the new UH-1Y can be used as flexible or fixed weapons, in the fixed forward position the guns can be fired by either member of the flight crew.

Jon

[dy031101]

Evidently the 7.62mm GAU-17A Gatlings installed on the new UH-1Y can be used as flexible or fixed weapons, in the fixed forward position the guns can be fired by either member of the flight crew.

Can the flight crew train the guns a little bit (again, like M16 or M21 systems)?

[Jeffry Fontaine]

There are some illustrations and drawings available at the U.S. ARMY HELICOPTER WEAPON SYSTEMS web page that might be of interest. 

As far as the flexibility of the weapons, that depends on the mount being used.  There are some mounts that have the ability to be fixed in the forward firing position as well as being used as a flexible mount for the door gunners.  The down side to this type of dual purpose mount is the increase in weigh and complexity which can reduce the amount of ammunition carried for the weapons. 

While the M16 and M21 armament subsystems were designed for the M60 GPMG and the M134 gatling gun, I see no reason to not consider modifying the mount to carry a 12.7mm/.50" MG in lieu of the smaller caliber weapons.  Since this is a WHIF, you can pretty much do what you want. 

Has anyone attempted or contemplated a kit bash of the UH-1 with the rotor blades from the H-60?  I know there is a Bell Model 412 out there now and a four blade rotor conversion for the UH-1 from someone in resin.  But what about a kit bash of the H-1 and the H-60?  Just for the sole purpose of expending some spare parts from the spares box?  While you are at it, maybe try to use the wheels from the H-60 on the H-1 to give it something other than skids.  Hey, even better, what about transferring the entire H-60 engine and tail rotor gear box fairing onto the H-1?  This would look pretty wicked, maybe I need to create a quick drawing of what I am trying to describe so you can appreciate the depths of depravity that I have now sunken to

[dy031101]

Once again, everyone is welcomed to provide his/her own take on any variants and offsprings of the UH-1 and AH-1 family.

But here is (more or less) mine: what prompted me to start this thread began when I read about the not-at-all convincing JUH-1H Hind-surrogate.  Then I figured- why stopping at just looking similar when someone, as I remember hearing somewhere, tried to create an answer to the Crocodile out of a Huey in the form known as the American Aircraft "Penetrator"?



I tried to augment what little I remembered of it by Googling and arrived at this link:

http://www.stealthstar.com/

Many picture links on the website are broken, but those that do work, while displaying mostly (by my estimation) movie props, show some interesting possibilities.

This former UH-1B carries a crew of four as well as six troops and has four 7.62mm miniguns, either a 20mm gatling gun or twin-barreled 40mm grenade launcher, as well as (in its "movie prop" form) two underwing and two wingtip hardpoints.  What if the Penetrator was built from an UH-1H or an UH-1N instead?  Huey II or Huey 800 upgrade?  How about building a Penetrator from an UH-1Y?  And perhaps the (IMHO) over-elongated nose can be replaced with a more business-like one similar to the configuration with twin 40mm GL in the nose but instead housing a navigation/targetting sensor turret?

Now come the questions:

1. Does anyone know if the cabin crew control all four miniguns or do the cockpit crew control the two at the front?

2. The miniguns are obviously remotely controlled, but does anyone how the minigun controls work?









On the totally fictitious side, I am still thinking about an UH-1 that looks like a Mi-24...... what prompted me to do so is that, before introducing AH-1W, Taiwanese did arm some of their UH-1H with 2.75" rocket launchers as a make shift gunships and copied or reverse-engineered the Russian 9K11 Malyutka anti-tank missiles.  What if the ROCA found a niche for an up-to-date Malyutka copy for use alongside TOW systems (I'm under the impression that Malyutka is more man-portable than TOW)?  And what if they wanted a more powerful helicopter gunship but, instead of being able to acquire AH-1 outright, had to make do with components of UH-1H for any reason?

[dy031101]

So, would this thread be appropriate for AH-1 thoughts as well?

Yes. 

AH-1 and Penetrator are almost like different people's takes on a successor to the gunship UH-1s......

[Shasper]

Cool

I rather like the idea of the original 4-bladed AH-1 (think AH-1F meets the main rotor from the 412) that was tested as a OH-58 replacement, just stick the MMS on it and say g'bye to the Kiowa warrior!

Shas

[kitnut617]

Like this one, AH-1Z.  I've got a 1/72 kit of one of these but since buying it I've been reading that it's all wrong.

[dy031101]

I rather like the idea of the original 4-bladed AH-1 (think AH-1F meets the main rotor from the 412) that was tested as a OH-58 replacement, just stick the MMS on it and say g'bye to the Kiowa warrior!

Could a modernised single-engine AH-1 benefited from components of the Huey II modification?  Although I think the old canopy (which is retained by twin-engine AH-1) looks sleeker than the flat-panel one......

[jcf]

Like this one, AH-1Z.  I've got a 1/72 kit of one of these but since buying it I've been reading that it's all wrong.

Yep, and that's because Italeri rushed the kit onto the market in the earliest days of Zulu development,
in other words before anybody (including Bell and the USMC) knew how the final machine would look. 

Good Zulu info here:
http://www.bellhelicopter.com/en/aircraft/military/pdf/AH1Z_PG_3-06_web.pdf

Same for the UH-1Y:
http://www.bellhelicopter.com/en/aircraft/military/pdf/UH1Y_PG_3-06_web.pdf



Jon

[kitnut617]

Just looking at the 'In Action' book and on the last page are three photos of the Bell Model 249 or Cobra 2000.this says that it flew with the four-blade 412 system.  Further back in the book there's some more photos of another four blader called the AH-1-4BW, this one looks more like the kit I have, which might have originated as an Italeri kit, it isn't boxed as one, mine is a Hobbycraft kit  http://www.militaryhobbies.ca/product.cfm?ProductID=4086  This matches the photos of the -4BW so I think that's what it's supposed to be but got called the Z instead.

[jcf]

I believe it goes:
Hobbycraft = Zhengdufu = bad underscale copy of Italeri Zulu.

Jon

[kitnut617]

When you say 'underscale' what do you mean?  I have 6 different Cobras in 1/72, a G, J, S, T, W and this Z.  IIRC when I compared them all one time, the T,W and Z were the same, is the Z really a bigger helicopter than the T and W then.

[Shasper]

The Hobbycraft/Zhengdufu 72nd Zulu was modeled after the Italeri 48th model. I think thats what he's trying to say. And yes, I'm refering to the Cobra 2000, not the -4BW/Zulu model.

Shas