pre-painting panel lines?

[Excalibur]

It's called honesty. 

All this arty bollocks really blackens my poo-poo (with an english accent), because it's all you see in the magazines or on the modelling sites.  Pre shade this, lighten that, ink this panel line (the worst offenders being the ones in Dulux poo-poo (with an english accent) Brown and it all started with Verlinden), blah blah fishcakes.  It's becoming more of a directive that Thou Shalt Model this way when it should be all down to the modeller's personal choice. 

What about the newcomer to the hobby who sees all this arty toss, tries it, fails and then gives up because he or she perceives that this is the way to model things when it's really about finding your own way?  By all means, ask for advice and take tips from others, but the modeller can only model the way that he or she is comfortable with. 

Those who are ramming this pre-shading poo-poo (with an english accent) down the hobby's throat are as bad as the Colour Police and the Accuracy Gestapo.  And quite frankly, as far as I'm concerned, these fascists can eat my poo-poo (with an english accent).

This is how I feel when it comes to the whole pre shading thing. It makes the model look far too pretty in my opinion. If you look at most warplanes they are filthy or have are imperfect paint wise one way or another. This whole thing about turning a kit into some sort of pristine art is so far removed from the very accuracy these people carry on about it's ridiculous! I also like to look at a model & see that builders personality, most of these builds in you see on sites & in mags are identical, dull.

& yes as Wooksta has said what about the newbie? The young kid who thinks it would be fun to build something but sees all this arty crap & decides it's just all too hard & gives it away. Not a great way to inspire the next generation of modelers. Remember most of us started at a time where not only did pre shading not exist but we didn't even use airbrushes.

[cthulhu77]

By all means, then, keep kids out of museums and art galleries, especially if they want to be artists. They might be intimidated!

Do you know that they are actually talking about eliminating physed from the grade school schedule, because fat kids feel bad about exercising? True. (shaking my head)

Thank god for Shep Paine and the rest who taught me to dream of being better, rather than the coddling b.s. going around now.

[jcf]

By all means, then, keep kids out of museums and art galleries, especially if they want to be artists. They might be intimidated!

Do you know that they are actually talking about eliminating physed from the grade school schedule, because fat kids feel bad about exercising? True. (shaking my head)

Thank god for Shep Paine and the rest who taught me to dream of being better, rather than the coddling b.s. going around now.

..and that Shep and others looked at what railroad modeler's had been doing for years and went "hey, that technique would work on an airplane or tank."

Jon

[Brian da Basher]

Personally I don't pre or post shade panel lines and I rarely weather my models at all. That having been said, far be it for me to judge any one else's approach. Many times I think weathering and shading are overdone, but then I see another model where it was handled masterfully (take a bow, Greg!). I don't think anyone should feel forced to adopt any technique they don't want to.

Brian da Basher

[Leigh]

Personally I'm a big fan of pre-shading but it all depends upon the subject and how weathered it's going to be.
I don't use black but some darker hue of what the final paint job is going to be, and to me it gives the plane different tonal values just like sitting in the elements does to a paint job, take a real look at any current U.S.M.C. aircraft and see the multitude of tones that started life as one colour of grey.
The pre-shading is not supposed to represent dirt and grime to me, that I do with washes and powders.
If you had a crappy old car with an oxidised paint job, you could wash all the dirt off but you'd still have different tonal values even though it's "clean", that to me is what the pre/post shading represents.
And like all things it can be overdone but to each his own I like it on some of my models and think it looks great! Sometimes.

[BlackOps]

I like it when done well. I don't do it, only because I'm inherently lazy 

I think all of the new "artsy" techniques make the hobby more interesting. I think more people would get bored with the hobby sooner if there weren't new things to try.

I'm sure this is one of those "love it" or "hate it" techniques but sometimes it really makes a nice model really that much nicer, I think subtlety is the key. I do have to agree I have seen many that just look over done and cartoony but then again I like cartoons too 

While I'm too lazy for pre-shading, I have just discovered the joys of pastels and have been playing a bit. Artsy indeed

[cthulhu77]

Well spoken, all !  I agree, to each modeler, his or her own fancy.  I like preshading on some projects, not on others in my own workspace...but I always enjoy seeing a new bit of craftsmanship come on the boards whether preshaded or not.

Yep, it does make the kits seem more "toylike", no argument from me. But I also love comic book illo's, and b-grade movies, so I am not trying to put preshading on some sort of a pedestal. ("so far up, I could look up her dress" Steve Martin)  I do like the look in some cases, and yes, much like anything, it can be overdone. Then again, if you are going to do something, why not over-do it? Chuckle.

[Gary]

I love the opinions guys, and thanks.

One thing I will say about the comments related to kids. There is a lot of truth about kids and modeling. This is the teacher in me talking now so please bear with me.

Attention spans are down dramatically. Patience is down dramatically. Instant perfect results are the only thing kids are interested in these days.  Inspire them yes, but try and remember that when the golden age of modeling for the average present day modeler started, there were only one or two channels on the television. No MTV to compete with, no internet, no XBox 360, no other major distractions on rainy days or after dark on a winter's evening. The idea that someone would spend hours reading wasn't unheard of, but today we have the lowest percentage of youth reading for pleasure than ever before.

What does this all mean. Well, firstly, a kid starting has to fork out 20 bucks or more for a good quality kit he or she might have first time success with. Add to that, the finishing stuff. When I first started building, paint was not an option and I used white glue. For what ever reason, kids don't understand that the magazine cover type quality finished work requires years of dedicated practice and patience, trial and error and a lot more at their disposal than they could reasonably afford. I've been modeling for 35 plus years and I still don't own a photo etch bender.

The way to inspire kids these days to model isn't the magazines and websites and model shows and the like. That comes later. Get them building with their peers. Cubs, Scouts, Cadets. Youth organizations are a fantastic way to start kids. Geoff Matheson , the Jr. Winner from the last big IPMS show is a friend's son and he started in Cubs. When kids build together and can enjoy playing with their finished kits (do you want your son running about the house with your pre-shaded Thunderbolt practicing touch and go's in the kitchen and strafing the cats?) then you can hook them. They will want another, and so on. Later, introduce paints with brushes and sanding and all the other stuff gradually. The pre-painted kits are not a good starting point either as they too set up a kid when they get the unpainted kit and don't know or want to finish it.

There will always be exceptions to this, but as a rule, youth are fading out of this pretty expensive hobby. The latest new release I say from Tamiya, 60+ dollars. If you a kid, not a good thing. Bring back the blister pack 72nd scale Matchbox, Frog and Airfix kits that were suitable, cheap, and friggen fun when I was 7 years old. Matchbox were the best, perhaps not accurate, but pre-coloured plastic made me feel like a champ when I compared it to the Frog kits.

[cthulhu77]

Instant gratification certainly is a problem. There is no way to put together a Dragon kit instantly! Yipes.
We do the free build seminars  with kids often at local shows, it is always a good time, but I doubt that any of them will turn to styrene modeling. Most seemed to think of the process as a tedious bit of time.
Most of the kids on our block are heavily into skateboarding, and I've had more luck showing them how to make their own custom boards than I have anything else. Yeah, they'll say "neat!" when I am spraying a finish coat on a large kit in the garage, but past that, no interest in the kit itself.
If videos killed the radio star, 3-d cgi has killed the modeler. I know it has virtually (pardon the pun) wiped out more than half of my business.

[BlackOps]

Bring back the blister pack 72nd scale Matchbox, Frog and Airfix kits that were suitable, cheap, and friggen fun when I was 7 years old. Matchbox were the best, perhaps not accurate, but pre-coloured plastic made me feel like a champ when I compared it to the Frog kits.

Man isn't it crazy how things change, I saved soda bottles and later mowed lawns to scrounge up a couple of bucks to head down to the drug store buy a model. I remember saving like crazy so I could get that "expensive kit"  Of course back then any kid could buy model glue and the spray paint wasn't locked up in a cage

[John Howling Mouse]

Pre-shading is an absolute must.  Anyone who doesn't always pre-shade should leave the hobby altogether.

Ah, just kidding.  I do like how pre-shading breaks up an otherwise monochromatic hue, helps make things look a little more worn.  I often mix in slight tints and shades of any paint I'm working with to purposely make the finish seem a bit streaked and blotchy.  I actually find the perfectly painted models look more like toys than the weathered ones.  Any depiction of a factory-fresh bird or tank, while maybe perfectly accurate, simply looks less real to me.

If you look close at good photos of operational aircraft, it's amazing to see just how far the range of hue and intensity, even opacity, of the paint is from one area to another.  Sometimes, when a camo demarcation nearly pools up while I'm airbrushing, I think it will look too deep/intense along the edges.  Then I'll look at an SEA camo Phantom or Thud photograph and see the same effect happened on the real subject in 1:1 scale.  With my tiny airbrush nozzle, I'm simply recreating, in miniature, the exact effect that a big HVLP paintgun had on the full-size bird: often very imperfect.

When it comes to pre-shading, I find that some modelers pre-shade every panel line exactly the same amount, etc. and then that continuity itself sometimes ends up looking more like a mass-produced "toy model" than a convincing miniature of the real thing.

As for "artsy" coming across in any kind of negative connotation, that's just plain ridiculous.  To whatever degree each modeler personally chooses to pursue them, those extra little efforts are often what distinguishes the creative modeler (certainly an artist in his/her scale medium) from the hobbyist who is simply enjoying the nearly effortless assembling of a pre-painted toy-kit without any hint of self-expression (his/her finished product will look identical to any other which is assembled without personal touches).

And, if you want to see how NOT to pre-shade, look below.  I had some extra near-black paint lying around and just went at it, with a bristle-brush (not airbrush) of all things!!!  Don't know what I was thinking but it looks pretty funny.

[cthulhu77]

Chuckle and a +1.

[The Rat]

Just got to thinkin', could a pre-shading technique simluate this sort of grime?:

[John Howling Mouse]

mmm...that looks good!

I'd use dark grey pastel powder dust rubbed off the pastel with fine sandpaper and then applied with a Q-tip.

[BlackOps]

I second the pastels idea. It's helpfull to hit your surface with a clear dullcoat before applying your pastels (gives 'em something to hang on to) then you can seal them in with a clear coat either gloss or dull.