UK looks at replacing Nimrod R.1s

[AeroplaneDriver]

Janes is reporting that the UK MoD is looking at alternatives to the current plan to operate 51 Sqn's 3 Nimrod R.1 ELINT aircraft until 2025.  The recent safety concerns over the fuel system apparently is making the status quo less attractive.  IT sounds like they are looking at an airframe to carry the existing HELIX mission equipment.  Obviously the things that 51 do and operate are some of the RAF's most closely guarded secrets, but in a thread on pprune.com the types who seem to be in the know are saying that the Nimrods carry 28 ELINT operators, but that they could work via datalink, so a large airframe may not be necessary.

So, whiffers, what would we build in 51 Sqn colors to carry on the ELINT mission?

Global Hawks?

E-8s?

I dont think there is a kit available, other than the snap-together airline desk models, but personally I think an Embraer E170/190 in RAF colors with an IFR probe and lots of antennas and bumps would look pretty cool...

(Note that this is only the 3 R.1 airframes, and has nothing to do with the ongoing MRA.4 program.)

[GTX]

Maybe go with a combination of something like Global Hawk and/or Sentinel R1s derivatives or even the G.550 Optionally manned concept proposed by Raytheon/Boeing for the BAMS requirement.

Regards,

Greg

[Daryl J.]

Since a large airframe is supposedly not necessary, then one could go to what everyone seems to be going to :  F/A-18F/G

, depending on point of view.


Daryl J., tongue firmly in cheek

[B777LR]

E-8
E-767 (replacing E-3s while doing so!), and then throw in a couple of KC-767s instead of KC-30s!

[Mossie]

I imagine they'll just end up refurbishing the aircraft to MRA.4 standard.  But as Greg says, a refitted Sentinel might be a good idea, I think this would get the nudge over the Embraer simply because the RAF already operates the Sentinel.  The RAF are now operating Preadators & Reapers so Global Hawk might not be too much of a stretch if it can carry the gear.  If a Nimrod size aircraft is required, maybe something based on the Airbus MPA319 or more likely the MPA320?

[B777LR]

But as Greg says, a refitted Sentinel might be a good idea, I think this would get the nudge over the Embraer simply because the RAF already operates the Sentinel.

Nice image! But isnt the Sentinel based on a Bombardier design? In that case, an ASW version of the Dash-8 Q400? Perfectly cheap to buy and operate!

[Mossie]

As long as the undercarriage doesn't snap off!

[Shasper]

Also IIRC the MoD went with the Airbus KC-330 over the KC-767, but then again I havent taken my meds yet so dont quote me on that.

Shas

[AeroplaneDriver]

A couple of thoughts and clarifications-

GTX-If a Sentinel-sized airframe is an option, then it seems the most logical option.  I cant imagine going with a Gulfstream, since hte Global Express and G550 are designed for the same mission.

Mossie-The artcle inferred that an MRA.4-type upgrade was ruled out long ago.  The plan was/is for less extensive (and expensive) upgrades to extend the life of the airframe to at least 2025, but without the total rebuild involved with the MRA.4.

Trip7-The R.1 isnt the ASW version, it's the electronic recon version.  The Q400 is a heck of an airplane, but I'm not sure if a turboprop fits the mission profile they are after.  

Mossie-We've been getting some info at work from Bombardier indicating that none of the gear issues were design flaws but were related to an improper maintenance procedure.

Anyway, knowing the current government they'll probalbly spend five billion pounds thinking about it then subcontract the role out to EasyJet.

[upnorth]

But as Greg says, a refitted Sentinel might be a good idea, I think this would get the nudge over the Embraer simply because the RAF already operates the Sentinel.

Nice image! But isnt the Sentinel based on a Bombardier design? In that case, an ASW version of the Dash-8 Q400? Perfectly cheap to buy and operate!

As I recall, DHC was trying to drum up intrest in an ASW variant of the 200 or 300 series Dash 8 back in the mid to late 80s. I think they called it the Triton. I recall seeing pictures in magazines of some models they made of it for trade shows.

[AeroplaneDriver]

At work we train Dash 8 pilots for the US Customs & Border Protection Service.  They have several 100s with FLIR and some other goodies based in Florida and Puerto Rico for maritime surveillance.  The last guys we had in for recurrent training a few weeks ago indicated that they were looking at getting some 300s with the mission equipment too.

[GTX]

I cant imagine going with a Gulfstream, since hte Global Express and G550 are designed for the same mission.

Ah, but the BAMS G550 (sometimes referred to as the RQ-37) is an entirely different creature.

Another option may be the EP-8 if it becomes reality.

Regards,

Greg

[B777LR]

A reason the DHC Q-400 would be good, a certain airline just dumped all of theirs! They could be delivered for conversion within a month or two!

[Mossie]

Mossie-We've been getting some info at work from Bombardier indicating that none of the gear issues were design flaws but were related to an improper maintenance procedure.

Glad to hear it AD, we've been worried about you!

[Thorvic]

Commonality would suggest either something based upon a Sentinel with a different gizmo fit or possibly even an Airbus A330 to tie in with the tanker program.
The alternative may well be an unmanned air vehicle possibly Global Hawk off the shelf or one of BAE projects developed as a suitable platform.

G