Indian Rafales, anyone?

[Supertom]

http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-01-25-voa13.cfm

[AeroplaneDriver]

I thought the Typhoon was in the running for the IAF also, but the article only mentions France competing against Russian and American fighters.

[Martin H]

Rafale M's flying from the carrier formaly known as Admiral Goshkov instead of Migs......hmmm

[B777LR]

Rafale M's flying from the carrier formaly known as Admiral Goshkov instead of Migs......hmmm

Or alongside! Now that would be a sight to see!

[Shasper]

Think the Rafale was short listed some time ago.

Shas

[GTX]

The usual suspects are being considered - see here:  http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/mirage-2000s-withdrawn-as-indias-mrca-fighter-competition-changes-01989/#updates

Regards,

Greg

[nev]

Interesting read, although I have to  statements such as the Indian Su-30MKI's going up against Eurofighters in our joint exercise last year (they didn't) and no geopolitical benefits in buying the Eurofighter.  What, apart from Gordon Brown pushing for India to have a permanent seat on the UN Security Council?

At the end of the day there appears no candidate that ticks all the boxes, so who knows?

[Shasper]

Got a nasty feelin it's gonna come down to the Gripen-N, Rafale & the MiG-35.

Shas

[B777LR]

Got a nasty feelin it's gonna come down to the Gripen-N, Rafale & the MiG-35.

Shas

Thats not nasty, thats the 3 nicest modern day fighters! (in my humble opinion)

[viper29_ca]

Man it must be hell for their maintenance crews to be able to keep so many different aircraft in flying order. You would think that they would want to ween it down to 2-3 modern airframes.

I mean why not get rid of all the Mig 21s, yes parts are probably plentiful considering the sheer number of airframes that were built, but lets face it, the Mig 21 has been obsolete since about the mid 70s.

Jaguar....probably still a fair number of parts around for it, since most other countries have mothballed their fleets, but again, its an old design, and a one dimensional platform....yeah I know you can mount a pair of winders on the wing roofs but that is just for sheer self defence, I sure as hell wouldn't want to go dogfighting with one.

Mirage 2000, ok...now we are getting into a newer class of fighter, but they only have 40?? Whats the point?? Sell them to some other country that are flying them and replace them with a newer fighter. Yes parts are still available, yes they are a newer aircraft, but having such a small number of them among the rest of the aircraft they fly. Has to be a nightmare getting parts and keeping them maintained when alot of the budget is being spent on parts for the numerous 1960's fighters.

Mig 27, again, a one dimensional plane, used for ground attack, like the Jag, parts are still reasonably easy to come by, just because Russia has so many. But again, its a mid 70's design used for one thing.

I would say the smart thing to do would be to dump at least the Mig 21s, and the Jags and replace them with whatever aircraft of their choice would be. However keep an option on the contract to purchase follow on aircraft to replace the Mirage 2000s and the Mig 27s. Something like the Gripen would be a perfect fit as it is a small, lightweight fighter, that can bolster the Su-30 in interception roles,  but can also do the ground attack roles just as easy.

[Joe C-P]

The Rafales may be operational and then retired before Gorshkov ends up in the Indian Navy.  I believe Russia just asked for even more money for her conversion. The Aoshima Kiev that I've hacked up to depict this may be in my closet forever.

Rafales, MiGs, and Sea Harriers all on one deck, that'd be a sight to see, though. 

JoeP

[B777LR]

Man it must be hell for their maintenance crews to be able to keep so many different aircraft in flying order. You would think that they would want to ween it down to 2-3 modern airframes.

I mean why not get rid of all the Mig 21s, yes parts are probably plentiful considering the sheer number of airframes that were built, but lets face it, the Mig 21 has been obsolete since about the mid 70s.

Jaguar....probably still a fair number of parts around for it, since most other countries have mothballed their fleets, but again, its an old design, and a one dimensional platform....yeah I know you can mount a pair of winders on the wing roofs but that is just for sheer self defence, I sure as hell wouldn't want to go dogfighting with one.

Mirage 2000, ok...now we are getting into a newer class of fighter, but they only have 40?? Whats the point?? Sell them to some other country that are flying them and replace them with a newer fighter. Yes parts are still available, yes they are a newer aircraft, but having such a small number of them among the rest of the aircraft they fly. Has to be a nightmare getting parts and keeping them maintained when alot of the budget is being spent on parts for the numerous 1960's fighters.

Mig 27, again, a one dimensional plane, used for ground attack, like the Jag, parts are still reasonably easy to come by, just because Russia has so many. But again, its a mid 70's design used for one thing.

I would say the smart thing to do would be to dump at least the Mig 21s, and the Jags and replace them with whatever aircraft of their choice would be. However keep an option on the contract to purchase follow on aircraft to replace the Mirage 2000s and the Mig 27s. Something like the Gripen would be a perfect fit as it is a small, lightweight fighter, that can bolster the Su-30 in interception roles,  but can also do the ground attack roles just as easy.

They have also got 18 Mig-23s. These are being phased out at the moment.

Indian has 308 Mig-21. Many newer Mig-21s are currently being upgraded to the MiG-21 2000 version (Bison), developed by Israeli Aircraft Industris, which will allow them to fly until 2020. These are very capable, considering their age. Getting rid of them would take time. Thus when the replacement is ordered, the oldest frames will leave after the Mig-23s have been replaced.

Same goes for the 109 Mig-27s, upgraded with the help of IAI.

Jaguar: 84 in service, and according to wikipedia, further 20 on order (but one can never trust wikipedia 100 %)

Mirage 2000: Have been used against pakistan i beleive. And 46 is more than many air forces operate.

Su-30MKI: currently 48 operating.

Mig-25: Was replaced 2 years ago, meaning one less type.

Mig-29: 54 in service.

The LCA Hal will also replace Mig-21s from 2010.

If the Mig-29/35 is as expected wins, it will be an excisting aircraft added to the fleet, replacing Mig-21, 23 and 27, leaving just 5 types by 2020.
By 2020 the USAF will still have F-15, F-16, F-22, F-35, A-10, B-1, B-2 and B-52.

[Shasper]

Getting OT here, but by 2020, the AF will have a bunch of F-22 & F-35s, with a lesser number of F-15Es, -16s & A-10s. Who knows about the B-1s & B-2s. All of the F-15A/B/C/Ds will be gone or on their way out (evident by the recent fleet wide groundings), with the F-16s headed out as well.

Back to the Topic at hand, if one reads the art. that the Chairman posted, the Indians are looking at commonality across the AF and their FAA. That would mean the only 2 a/c that could fit those specs would be the Rafale & the MiG-35. The Typhoon has no current naval version, along with the F-16 & JAS-39. The Bug would be ruled out because of its size (closer to the Su-30) and the inability to operate from the new INS carrier in suffecient numbers (akin to the Kuznetzov & the Su-33s). A naval variant of the LCA has been kicked around, but nothing definite has been made public.

Having said all of that, my hopes are still pinned on either the MiG-35 (cuz of the commonality factor) and the Gripen in it's newer E/F version (as pitched to Norway as an alt. to the JSF).


Shas

[GTX]

It should be quite possible to do a Naval Gripen.

Regards,

Greg

[nev]

Viper29, what you have to remember is that India is one of those countries, like Taiwan, that has to hedge their bets when it comes to military hardware.  They never know when Russia, or Britain, or France will fall out with them, so they need to spread the love around as it were.

But yeah, they do have a bit of a mix of types in there.  I'm pretty sure a few goverment officialls have pocketed the ££££££ over the years.....