B-58 Hustler

[Gary]

Been reading up on the B-58 and came across a note about varients. Apparetly there was a time when the Australian government was looking at the Hustler and the Mirage 4 and something else for a big stick. Interesting ideas, no? They opted to save their money and not buy any of the above.

Another proposal not considered was to replace the J-79's with J-58 turbofan engines with more than twice the thrust. There is a 4 engine and a 2 engine proposal. But sadly I can't find pics for you all.

The bestest proposal was the 55 passenger supersonic airliner version. I never imagined such a thing actually existed and I had started one years ago with the Hobbycraft 144th kit. Never got anywhere with it however, just didn't look right. But again, I can't find any pics of said beasty. Anyone got images of that thing? I just scored a 72nd version and was thinking about what to do with her and the passenger jet idea really has my interest.
Cheers
Gary

[ElectrikBlue]

Links and pictures on Secret Projects  B-58 A B C E topic!
(I have to be registered to view the pics)

EB

[Mossie]

I didn't see that link before, I do like that civil version.  Take a Concorde fuselage, shorten it, & bung on a Hustlers wings with the mods to the tail & engines.

[PR19_Kit]

Bumping of this topic was caused by me finding a copy of the second issue of the Aerofax Hustler book at Hamex last weekend. I have a first edition of it already but the book fell down the gap between The Loft floor and the outer wall of my house many years ago and there's no way I can get it back without having the wall rebuilt! 

The newer edition has some interesting stuff that shows Convair were well ahead of us here as almost all of the 'ideas' that various people have proposed in this thread had already been investigated back in the 60s. It also shows a drawing of of the VietNam 3 colour camo scheme proposed and a tail note about a guy who FLEW the only camo B-58 ever painted, and they give its serial no. too!

Various passenger carrying proposals are shown in drawing form, including one which carried a single row of pax in a standard size MB-1 pod, for goodness sake!

But one thing that isn't mentioned is why the inner engines are on quite long pylons while the outer ones are tight under the wing surface. I guess it's to do with the transonic drag issue mentioned earlier, but there's no definitive explanation. There was more than one proposal to have the outer engines on TOP of the wing, as well as the various siamesed pods, but all of these foundered when they tried them with the large podded payloads. Apparently the airflow between the pod and the inner engines required the singly mounted engines for the least drag.

It's a fascinating book, but about 30% of it is about the political ramifications of the project, and I tend to skip over those bits.....

[Mossie]

There was more than one proposal to have the outer engines on TOP of the wing, as well as the various siamesed pods, but all of these foundered when they tried them with the large podded payloads.

Convair went even further.  Convair Advanced Designs: Secret Projects from San Diego, 1923-1962 by Robert Bradley is a book worth getting for all manner of projects.  It focuses on flying boat & bombers deisigned at San Diego so the Hustler doesn't get in, but there were a few combat sea plane projects that used the basic B-58 layout.  So a four seat B-58 with two tilting engines on the wings, two on the tail, a planing hull & a hydroplane?  You'd lol yourself if someone came up with that here, barmy!

[sandiego89]

. It also shows a drawing of of the VietNam 3 colour camo scheme proposed and a tail note about a guy who FLEW the only camo B-58 ever painted, and they give its serial no. too!

OHHH.  Need details on that.  I know the supposed camoflage B-58 was of great interest to the author during the first edition.  Did it really fly with cammo?

[PR19_Kit]

OHHH.  Need details on that.  I know the supposed camoflage B-58 was of great interest to the author during the first edition.  Did it really fly with cammo?

Apparently so.

The tail-note tells the story of a guy who built a model for a former B-58 pilot and who contacted the book's author for details on authentic colour schemes. The author jokingly suggested he did it in the TO 1-1-4 camo scheme, but eventually it was built in the standard SAC scheme. When the modeller delivered it to the former pilot he mentioned the idea for the camo schemed model, whereupon the former pilot said he'd FLOWN the one and only camo B-58! It seemed it was always kept under armed guard in a closed hangar and didn't venture out much, but he quoted the serial no, 59-2428, with the comment that they were in red on the fin and nose gear doors.

If I wasn't likely to be shot at dawn I'd scan the TO 1-1-4 drawing and post it here...........

[rickshaw]

You might find these pages about that particular Hustler of interest:

http://67.189.28.191/b-58/searched.cfm?sn=59-2428

And this picture from a sim:

[PR19_Kit]

Interestingly the 'official page' for 59-2428 doesn't mention the camo experiment, but then they wouldn't, would they?  (Copywrite Mandy Rice-Davis 1965....)

Which sim and which model is that piccie from please? The side view camo is the same as the drg. in the Aerofax book, as is the port wing, but the starboard wing is different. Odd.......... 

[PR19_Kit]

Which sim and which model is that piccie from please? The side view camo is the same as the drg. in the Aerofax book, as is the port wing, but the starboard wing is different. Odd.......... 

Ah, found it myself. It looks like it was part of the original Alphasim FS9 release, which I have archived somewhere.

[Weaver]

Various passenger carrying proposals are shown in drawing form, including one which carried a single row of pax in a standard size MB-1 pod, for goodness sake!

"Just drop us off here....NO! Let me re-phrase that....." 

[rickshaw]

Interestingly the 'official page' for 59-2428 doesn't mention the camo experiment, but then they wouldn't, would they?  (Copywrite Mandy Rice-Davis 1965....)

Which sim and which model is that piccie from please? The side view camo is the same as the drg. in the Aerofax book, as is the port wing, but the starboard wing is different. Odd.......... 

Apparently "Alphasim" (never heard of it before) - http://67.189.28.191/b-58/fltsim_alphasim.cfm

The image is from the provider's "repaint" page for Alphasim - http://67.189.28.191/b-58/fltsim_repaints.cfm

[Dork the kit slayer]

Legal Disclaimer

* Please note that the phrase "will be" when used in refering to kits in the stash does not indicate that the writer will ever build them in this form, or indeed build them at all, but that at the moment this is his current intention.

Lawyer speak for " I might not be able to find them under all the other stuff"

Pima County Museum (Tuscon) earlier this year.

[rickshaw]

Seeing that tail gun made me think of a question.  How do you train your gunners to be able to fire at supersonic speeds?

I know its an automatic system but there is, I believe a man in the loop.  What do you use for live fire training?  You'd be out of most ranges before you could undertake an engagement!  What could you use to tow a target, another B-58?

Anybody got any ideas?  I could think of using a supersonic drone but destruction would get real expensive, real quick...

[PR19_Kit]

Apparently "Alphasim" (never heard of it before) - http://67.189.28.191/b-58/fltsim_alphasim.cfm

The image is from the provider's "repaint" page for Alphasim - http://67.189.28.191/b-58/fltsim_repaints.cfm

Indeed, as I posted right after asking the question. 

Sadly Alphasim are no more and have morphed into Virtavia nowadays, nowhere near as inovative or as costomer friendly as Alpha were before. I have their B-58 somewhere but it looks like that repaint is unobtainable at present. The B-58 isn't on Virtavia's lists just now and neither is it on the Alpha freeware list either.