Avro Vulcan

[Mossie]

Heads up for anyone interested in the Vulcan or R&D stuff, Aeroplane Monthly is carrying an article on the early development of the Vulcan.  Promises a few illustrations of sci-fi like designs that have not been seen before.  It's due out this Friday in the UK, 1st Feb.

Here's a link & there's a further one on that to some animations & illustrations.

http://www.aeroplanemonthly.com/news/Avro_Vulcan__early_concepts_revealed_news_176580.html

Simon.

[jcf]

Thanks Dogness it turned out like it did, and not like 'that' !

Pretty cool stuff, tho....thanks for the heads up !

( cheers )

Aww, c'mon the flying carpet sweeper version looks like it was born to wear maple leafs. 
http://www.ianbottillustration.co.uk/images/avrovideos/Port-avro1.html

Jon

[kitnut617]

The flying carpet sweeper isn't in BSP & I think it will contain a few more designs, at least I hope so!  Should be able to get hold of a copy tomorrow, I'll let you know how good the article is.  Aeroplane Monthly often tend to do some quite lengthy articles, so hopefully this will contain a fair bit of info.

Well I can't think what else I've read about it in Simon, I'm sure that's where it was.  There were some other developments along the same lines too.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

This is another subject that has been overlooked for a while.  I had taken the time to consolidate several threads into one and after review I realized that there was no continuity to the thread thanks to past issues created by the forum crash and the hacker attack that took place a couple of years ago.  So it was with regret that I dispatched the entire thread to the bit bucket.  Past discussions of the Vulcan had created a variety of ideas and concepts, some of these were suggested under the influence and others were quite rational.  This thread will be the starting point for any new discussions on the Vulcan. 

I do remember one member that was building a larger Vulcan that incorporated the wings from the fictional Revell Stealth Bomber and a fuselage stretch to accomodate the wings.  What happened with that project?  Was it ever finished?   If it was, where are the images? 

Other ideas that had been put forth in the previous thread had been focused on the Vulcan in service with other Air Forces of the Commonwealth, New Zealand and Australia were two of them that had been discussed, other possibilities were South Africa and Canada. 

Personally, I would like to have seen a Vulcan II with the radar suite of a contemporary attack aircraft that would include a TFR or a terrain following feature so that small radome on the B.2 would disappear.  The weapons load could have been improved to allow carriage of cruise missiles or my favorite strategic bomber missile the AGM-69 SRAM.  This could have been the radar busting version of the Vulcan filling a role that was performed for many years by the F-111 in the USAF to blast holes in the Russian radar network to allow the main force to flow through and attack their assigned targets. 

Conventional weapons for a modern Vulcan, how about a conventional warhead on the AGM-69 SRAM?  Or the AGM-86 ALCM armed with a conventional warhead?  The weapons bay was able to accomodate very large bombs such as the Blue Danube so the Grand Slam would have been no problem at all. 

[overscan]

Obviously supersonic flight isn't worth bothering with, but a Vulcan re-engined with fuel efficient turbofans, new avionics, and reduced radar cross-section might be good.

[Mossie]

There were several design studies to improve the Vulcan in similar ways Jeff.  A Vulcan 'Phase Six', or B.3 would have had the forward fuselage stretched, a larger wing & intakes, yet more powerful Olympus engines, a fuselage spine & a nose gear that retracted veritcally to allow for a larger bomb bay.  It would have been capable of carrying cruise missiles, either in the bomb bay or under the wings, to a maximum of six.  Weapons pods under the wings would have increased the amount of iron bombs it could carry to at at least 35 x1000lb. The various extensions would have made for much more fuel capacity, extending range by a good margin.

Vulcan could probably have carried AGM-69 & AGM-86, a Vulcan (& Victor as well) cruise missle carrier was studied.  British alternatives were under development too, including an improved Blue Steel.  It could have carried the air launched version of Blue Water that was developed for TSR2.

I like the idea of a contempary Vulcan that could have continued in service like the B-52.  A few extra electronic lumps & bumps & modern weapons.  It could carry a fair few Stormshadows in that bay, as well as a few more under the wings!

[Aircav]

Ah yes but the initial Phase 6 had a smaller bomb bay because of all the extra room the new electronics and coolers took up.

[Mossie]

Wasn't this the reason for the forward fuse strtech & vertical retracting nose gear?

[Archibald]

Hehe... got a Vulcan idea last night 

Ever heard of Orbital Sciences Pegasus ? This rocket air-launched from a B-52.
I think the Skybolt could be a good satellite-launcher, much earlier than the Pegasus.

I think about a Vulcan / Skybolt / Black Arrow combo 
(in short, graft Black Arrow upper stage onto the Skybolt, itself hanged below the Vulcan)

[Aircav]

Wasn't this the reason for the forward fuse strtech & vertical retracting nose gear?

The initial Phase 6 was to launch up to six Skybolt missiles

[simmie]

BSP Vol.3 has mention of Polaris being hung under a Vulcan, semi-resessed in the bomb bay.

(BSP IV Missiles & Hypersonics by Chris Gibson - III is 1935-1947 WWII projects by Tony Buttler)

[AeroplaneDriver]

I was a bit disapointed when I got British Secret Projects-Jet Bombers and discovered that the Phase 6/B.3 etc Vulcans were actually ugly as sin with the big ungainly fuselage spine. 

I would still like to build an updated Vulcan someday.  My plan involves enlarging the intakes a little to accomodate BMW-RR BR715 engines simlar to the Nimrod mods.  I'd also add a new canopy with better visibility to show off the new 2-person cockpit with Mk.10 seats and modern displays.  A few sensor type lumps and bumps under the nose, and a slew of Paveway IVs in the bomb bay and she should be good to go. 

[Mossie]

I was a bit disapointed when I got British Secret Projects-Jet Bombers and discovered that the Phase 6/B.3 etc Vulcans were actually ugly as sin with the big ungainly fuselage spine. 

Apart from the fuel, part of the reason for the spine was because the canopy bubble was found to cause quite a lot of drag.  If your looking at a whole new Vulcan, maybe you'll want to extend the teardrop and/or blend it into the fuse a bit more?

[Archibald]

I'm slowly improving my idea of a Vulcan satellite launcher. Vulcan had a weapon load of 10 tons, and carried 33 tons of fuel.
I think we can reasonably diminish the fuel load if the bomber become a permanent satellite-launch platform.
Let's say the fuel load is reduced to 20 tons, this "free" 13 tons for the load.

So our Vulcan now carry 23 metric tons. What can carry within these limits ? lots of interesting rockets!
- Skybolt
- Pegasus
- Polaris
(yes it would have fit! This missile only weighed 12 metric tons and had a small diameter)

But also many "small launchers" such as Diamant, Black Arrow or the Scout all-solid booster. All carry 100 to 200 kg to LEO (Low Earth Orbit)

This peculiar Vulcan would take off from Woomera, Kourou or Wallop Island (depending from the launch vehicle hanged below the bomber), climb to 60 000 ft then release the rocket...

[Lawman]

With the rising scepticism about the Skybolt's future, it is decided to adopt an air-launched version of the Army's Pershing missile. Though it seemed daunting at first, the tests prove a success, and it is rapidly put into final testing, and it is rushed into service. Being of similar dimensions to the Skybolt, integration proves to be straightforward, and though having less range, it proves to still be a useful missile, being capable of more than 1,000km range in air-launched form. The US still makes a deal with the UK to allow for Polaris to be adopted, but the RAF manage to acquire a batch of the air-launched Pershing missiles, initially in a 'dual key' arrangement, and then properly bought for the V-Bomber fleet. It is recognised that Polaris wouldn't be properly in service for almost a decade, and therefore the RAF gets Pershing to fill the perceived gap.

The RAF therefore gets a new 'definitive' Vulcan force, the B.Mk3, modified with Spey engines, and with more internal fuel capability, by means of installing a huge tank in the upper half of the weapons bay (limiting internal weapons carriage to just eight 1,000lb weapons. These allow the Vulcan to have much longer range, befitting their multi-role capability, under which they find themselves performing maritime recon, ELINT and lots of other missions. These are supported by a fleet of VC-10 tankers, as well as an AEW fleet of VC-10s using the Hawkeye's radar, and an equivalent of the American EC-135 or E-4, i.e. a national command authority aircraft (with the ability to talk to V-bombers, Polaris subs and the various command facilities on the ground).