Avro Vulcan

[Archibald]

You can launch a wide array of missiles from a Vulcan.
As I explained in another thread this bomber had a weapon load of 10 metric tons and a 33-tons fuel load.

Scrap some fuel and load can rise to 20 or even 25 metric tons. Then LOT of missiles will fit...
Someone mentionned a Vulcan/ Polaris combo 

[Lawman]

The attraction of Pershing is the size, though, since it is the same size class as the Skybolt, and though of shorter range, it should still have given the USAF and RAF a good air-launched capability. The ability to carry two Pershing on Vulcan, or four on the B-52 would at least give them a healthy standoff capability. As it was, with Skybolt cancelled, the USAF had to continue to rely on the Hound Dog, and the RAF had to go with Blue Steel, neither of which were very survivable options!

There would be real problems, though, with trying to boost the weapons capacity much, due to MTOW restrictions, and also the inherent limitations on the capabilities of the bomb bay. Now, the Vulcan B.Mk.3, with the Spey engines, and probably a host of other developments, hopefully boosting MTOW as well; would be very capable. Two Pershings and a couple of SRAMs would make sense, allowing them to get a little closer to danger. The bigger benefit, of course, would be capability of the Vulcans for conventional long range bombing missions, e.g. Falklands.

[Archibald]

I'm rather confused about Avro Vulcan various masses and weight.

Weapon load sounds ok, 21* 1000 pounds bombs or around 10 metric tons.

But MTOW is a true nightmare. 190 000 Ibs ? 204 000 bs ? 250 000 Ibs ?

I've seen things like 86, 95 or even 113 metric tons!

Isn't the 250 000 Ibs Vulcan a typo or a myth ?

Btw I'll be glad to know the maximum internal fuel load...

[B777LR]

Screw wikipedia, dont look there for anything but length, height and wingspan, and a rough history.
I would recommend going to a secondhand bookshop, and find a nice big aviation encyclopedia. My latest book (The Aviation Factfile: Military Aircraft of the Cold War) shows the Vulcan has a MTOW of 200.000 lb (90.720 kg).

Bomb load is typically 20.950 lb (9500 kg), but max bombload is 47.300 lb (21.454 kg).

Another book i have agrees on these within a few hundred punds.

[Archibald]

So a fully-loaded Vulcan would decompose as follow (rough numbers)

- empty weight 37 metric tons
- Fuel load : around 33 metric tons
- Up to 20 metric tons of bombs

Et voila, 90 metric tons...

[Mossie]

Slight diversion, but I just picked up the Aerofax guide on the Vulcan & it contained a few developments that I hadn't seen before.

Firstly, was the Avro 718, a dedicated transport version of the Vulcan, quite different to the Avro 722 Atlantic airliner.  It was a double decker, with a pressurised upper lobe & a semi or unpressurised lower.  In plan form it looks pretty much like a Vulcan with a longer tail, it's the front & side elevations where it looks very diffferent.  From it's internal layout I guess it was a touted as a direct replacement for the Blackburn Beverley.

Second, was the Avro 732 Supersonic Vulcan.  I'd heared about it, but this is the first time I've seen pics.  Apart from a wing that is roughly similar to the Vulcan prototype.  The fuselage is much slimmer & it has eight engines, four in the wing roots & four mounted on wing pylons.  Quite odd looking to be honest, you couldn't really call it a Vulcan anymore, at least, not in the way that the supersonic Victor could clearly be called a descendant of the V-Bomber.

Thirdly, a version that will get Archie in a lather, in more ways than one.  A satelite launcher!  Not only that, it would carry the French Diamant rocket booster.  The diagram has it mounted directly under the port intake.

[Archibald]

Wow! Didn't see you mail before, nor the end of the post
Check your inbox mon ami!   

So here's the obvious answer...

Why using a big froggy rocket (the Diamant) when Great Britain had a smaller and british rocket, I mean the Black Arrow ??

Btw judging from the picture it's probably a Diamant A or B, not a BP-4. This mean the project date back before 1972 (late Diamants had... Black Arrow larger payload shroud!)

Well in every case Diamant was much longer than Black Arrow.
Diamant A and the Black Arrow had similar mass (18 metric tons) but later Diamants were much heavier around 25 tons. 

Blue Steel was nearly as big as Black Arrow...

[Mossie]

Payload capacity may have been one reason, Wiki lists the Diamant as having 160kg capacity, Black Arrow as 75kg.  Another is that it may simply have been an exercise to look at what boosters were available, others may have been considered.  Finally, good old Anglo French relations & the fact that Britain couldn't afford it's own space program.  France had the booster & the Brits had the capacity to launch it & they'd share the spoils.  Could be one for the Entente Tres Cordial thread.

EDIT, I see that it already is!

[Archibald]

Payload capacity may have been one reason, Wiki lists the Diamant as having 160kg capacity, Black Arrow as 75kg.  Another is that it may simply have been an exercise to look at what boosters were available, others may have been considered.  Finally, good old Anglo French relations & the fact that Britain couldn't afford it's own space program.  France had the booster & the Brits had the capacity to launch it & they'd share the spoils.  Could be one for the Entente Tres Cordial thread.

EDIT, I see that it already is!

You can probably launch a SCOUT, too (210 kg in LEO for the late variants).

Vulcan satellite launcher ? This lovely photo could illustrate this 



"Cayenne airport, march 1977. Wearing their high-altitude suits, ESA pilots pose with Vulcan mothership  moments before first air-launch test of Diamant rocket"

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Mr. David J. Ross posted a comment with an image on the HyperScale "Plane Talking" forum that he states is a 1/48th scale injection molded plastic kit of the Avro Vulcan to be offered by Airfix. Is there any truth to this or has someone decided to wind us up? 

Here is a link to the image of the model in question that he claims to be a 1/48th scale Vulcan on the Airfix table at Telford

Jeffrey

It's true - I saw it on the stand yesterday, along with the box art. You'll need lots of room!

This is indeed most excellent news.  While I am glad to see this subject in 1/48th scale I am also concerned about the price, any idea on what the MSRP will be for this kit?  Did Airfix provide any details on what will be included in the kit such as an open bomb bay and weapons?

AirCav was working on a Vulcan WHIF several years ago.  Here is the link to his topic in the current and completed projects forum board: Topic: Secret Project.................Shht!!

[dy031101]

Say, would the Vulcan have been able to carry six (one triple ejector rack under each wing) or even twelve (one multiple ejector rack under each wing like those used yb B-52) AGM-129 ACMs?

[kitnut617]

Mr. David J. Ross posted a comment with an image on the HyperScale "Plane Talking" forum that he states is a 1/48th scale injection molded plastic kit of the Avro Vulcan to be offered by Airfix. Is there any truth to this or has someone decided to wind us up? 

Here is a link to the image of the model in question that he claims to be a 1/48th scale Vulcan on the Airfix table at Telford

Jeffrey

It's true - I saw it on the stand yesterday, along with the box art. You'll need lots of room!

This is indeed most excellent news.  While I am glad to see this subject in 1/48th scale I am also concerned about the price, any idea on what the MSRP will be for this kit?  Did Airfix provide any details on what will be included in the kit such as an open bomb bay and weapons?

AirCav was working on a Vulcan WHIF several years ago.  Here is the link to his topic in the current and completed projects forum board: Topic: Secret Project.................Shht!!

I've read that the 1/48th Vulcan which appeared on the Airfix stand is an Aeroclub vacuform, and was there to gauge reaction to a possible kit by Airfix in this scale

[Weaver]

Okay, so how do you Whiff a 1/48th Vulcan (assuming you can save up enough money to buy one before you die)?

My first thought is scaleorama: 1/72nd cockpit bubble, blend the engine tunnels into ovals, eight engine nozzles and million-wheel u/c bogies......

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Obviously supersonic flight isn't worth bothering with, but a Vulcan re-engined with fuel efficient turbofans, new avionics, and reduced radar cross-section might be good.

Took that to task and came up with a quick image of an improved Vulcan.  Had to get rid of that little black zit of a radar on the nose and a quick deletion of the bomb aiming bulge underneath and lastly the best spot to put the EVS blisters so the would look like they belonged. 

[ElectrikBlue]

Talking about improved Vulcan, I've found a drawing of an Avro Vulcan B2 on my sketch pad.
It's a bigger Vulcan with new fuselage section and spine, does anyone have more info or resources about this version. 

Regards,

EB