Avro Vulcan

[Mossie]

EB, that looks pretty much like an improved Vulcan B.2 development that was proposed by Avro around 1957.  It would have had a stretched forward fuselage with the nosewheels retracting vertically to make room for more fuel & an enlarged weapons bay.  The enlarged spine would include more fuel, but it was also an aerodynamic improvement on the original canopy that was found to cause fairly high levels of drag.  It would also have had improved engines & enlarged intakes.

There was a version that took this design further too, the Vulcan Phase 6, the ultimate Vulcan.  It was intended as a missile carrier & as well as the above modifications, would have had enlarged wings (a pure delta without the leading edge kink) & tail, & Olympus 21 engines.  It would have carried four Skybolt missiles.

[ElectrikBlue]

There was a version that took this design further too, the Vulcan Phase 6, the ultimate Vulcan.  It was intended as a missile carrier & as well as the above modifications, would have had enlarged wings (a pure delta without the leading edge kink) & tail, & Olympus 21 engines.  It would have carried four Skybolt missiles.

Hi Mossie, thanks a lot for the details on the Vulcan Phase 6.
With four Skybolt missiles it would look like a macro-fighter. Have to find some profiles!

Regards,

EB

[Aircav]

Phase 6 Vulcan was to of had a smaller bomb bay to cater for all the extra electronics and fuel while carrying 6 Skybolt missiles.

[Mossie]

Hi Mossie, thanks a lot for the details on the Vulcan Phase 6.
With four Skybolt missiles it would look like a macro-fighter. Have to find some profiles!

Regards,

EB

PM On it's way EB!

[kitnut617]

There was a version that took this design further too, the Vulcan Phase 6, the ultimate Vulcan.  It was intended as a missile carrier & as well as the above modifications, would have had enlarged wings (a pure delta without the leading edge kink) & tail, & Olympus 21 engines.  It would have carried four Skybolt missiles.

Hi Mossie, thanks a lot for the details on the Vulcan Phase 6.
With four Skybolt missiles it would look like a macro-fighter. Have to find some profiles!

Regards,

EB

EB, there's quite a few drawings and sketches of these proposed Vulcans in the BSP-Bombers book.

[Aircav]

Phase 6 top view

[GTX]

Imagine the Vulcan Phase 6 updated in the '90s with Skybolts replaced with AGM-86ALCMs and AGM-69 SRAMs.
Regards,

Greg

[PR19_Kit]

The Phase 6 was also proposed carrying two Gnats, one under each wing.

Not sure if they were meant to be escort fighters or as parasite PR a/c, like the RF-84Ks under the GRB-36s. I can see the book of mine that mentions it, but I can't get anywhere near it at the moment. 

I would NOT have liked to be one of their pilots! The Gnat cockpit is a bit adjacent just for a short flight (they wouldn't let me in one, I was too tall....) quite what it would have been like for some hours defies all logic. 

[Steel Penguin]

i know that in Tim Lamings the vulcan story ( p90) thers an illustration of a vulcan diag with 3 Gnats under it, the coment does suggest that the Gnats were on a one way trip, i suppose a more modern version would have them as drones.

[van883]

Very interesting-shame it looks so banana shaped-I've often wondered why so many British projects look so ungainly-the supersonic Scimitar being an example.

Van

[Mossie]

Not sure if they were meant to be escort fighters or as parasite PR a/c, like the RF-84Ks under the GRB-36s. I can see the book of mine that mentions it, but I can't get anywhere near it at the moment. 

I would NOT have liked to be one of their pilots! The Gnat cockpit is a bit adjacent just for a short flight (they wouldn't let me in one, I was too tall....) quite what it would have been like for some hours defies all logic. 

Three in total with one on the centreline too, although I think two would be optimum.  From Secret Projects:

Phase 6 Vulcan was to of had a smaller bomb bay to cater for all the extra electronics and fuel while carrying 6 Skybolt missiles.

There was a later version too with the extended spine & forward fuselage of the earlier B.2 improvement & the Skybolts were rationalised to four, theres a three view of it in BSP Bombers.

[Mossie]

Mentioned on Secret Projects & listed in BSP Bombers there is the Avro 769 (SP got it slightly wrong, quoting 768), a proposal for a VTOL Vulcan!!!  No other info unfortunately, but thats just an oppurtunity for imagination to run riot.

More goodies from Secret Projects, a speculative desgin for a British atomic powered bomber, but clearly influenced by Vulcan:

[PR19_Kit]

Very interesting-shame it looks so banana shaped-I've often wondered why so many British projects look so ungainly-the supersonic Scimitar being an example.

Van,

Ungainliness is surely in the eye of the beholder, isn't it? 

Some would say the Scimitar was nicely curved, along with many other British designs of the period. The Scimitar may have been somewhat fatter than it could have been, but it was originally designed to carry a 4.5" recoilless gun between the engines. Something that big does rather limit any aspirations to beauty.....

Actually I'm not sure the Scimitar was supersonic, not unless going downhill anyway.

[van883]

Very interesting-shame it looks so banana shaped-I've often wondered why so many British projects look so ungainly-the supersonic Scimitar being an example.

Van,

Ungainliness is surely in the eye of the beholder, isn't it? 

Some would say the Scimitar was nicely curved, along with many other British designs of the period. The Scimitar may have been somewhat fatter than it could have been, but it was originally designed to carry a 4.5" recoilless gun between the engines. Something that big does rather limit any aspirations to beauty.....

Actually I'm not sure the Scimitar was supersonic, not unless going downhill anyway.

I love the Scimitar, I think it is elegant-I was referring to a proposed supersonic development. I can't remember where I saw it, but it did have that hump backed look which also appeared on the Vulcan proposals. Hideous imho!

[PR19_Kit]

I love the Scimitar, I think it is elegant-I was referring to a proposed supersonic development. I can't remember where I saw it, but it did have that hump backed look which also appeared on the Vulcan proposals. Hideous imho!

Ah right, I'm with you now, sorry.

That would be the Supermarine Type 576.

It's in Tony Butler's Brit Fighters book, page 48. It doesn't go into the detail of the shape much, but it seems the hump would have been for the extra rocket fuel, as the 576 was to have twin rocket boosters as well as its twin Avon 300s. It talks about '....using the dorsal tanks...........' at one stage.