M113 'The Bucket'

ysi_maniac · March 04, 2008, 11:14:28 AM

Does this help? By the way, I have seen drawings of a 7 rollers long version.

jcf · March 04, 2008, 11:20:39 AM

Quote from: Geoff on March 04, 2008, 10:46:18 AM
OK I am not sure where to post this one - At a show I was having a conversation about WW2 German APC's and I was told the Whermacht had a APC in development that looked "similar" to the M-113 series. I cannot get any sense out of Google (can anyone) so does anyone here have any info please?

Ya mean an armored box on tracks?

The US developed the 51 ton (T16)M44 APC during WWII based on M18 Hellcat components, it was designed to carry 25 troops.
http://62.128.210.96/tanks-hotel/hotel/hellcat_series/m44/m44-intro.html

The switch to squad-carrier tactics led to the smaller M75 design.
http://www.bigshotsofidaho.com/m75.html

Jon

Maverick · March 04, 2008, 01:16:22 PM

The closest German analog to the M113 as a prototype that got build would have been the Katchen. Based on the Hetzer 38(t) hull, it was a full tracked APC with an armoured superstructure.

GTX · March 04, 2008, 04:46:34 PM

What about a quasi-tank with a largish turret mounting a 90mm, 105mm or even low powered 120mm main gun?

Regards,

Greg

dy031101 · March 04, 2008, 07:22:33 PM

Quote from: GTX on March 04, 2008, 04:46:34 PM
What about a quasi-tank with a largish turret mounting a 90mm, 105mm or even low powered 120mm main gun?

GIAT and Cockerill both have their own 90mm turret designs.

CETME produces a twin 106mm recoilless rifle mount (TC-7), and the US also tested an autoloading single 106mm RR turret on M114 (so M113 should have no problem using it?).

For the full power 105mm rifled gun...... CT-CV turret maybe......

The Katchen CGIs made me wonder if it can take a Cockerill 90mm turret, too......

GTX · March 04, 2008, 08:47:05 PM

Cool - do you have more info on that automatic recoiless rifle?

Regards,

Greg

Mossie · March 05, 2008, 04:11:03 AM

You could mount an M139 Volcano Mine dispenser on it by removing the troop section. Alvis did this with the Stormer to create the Sheilder:

A single Shielder can lay a good sized minefield in front of an armoured column in a matter of minutes. The Volcano system comes in blocks of 20 dispensers so you can size it to fit the M113.

Maverick · March 05, 2008, 04:15:05 AM

Autoloading RCL

, that sounds like some scary stuff to me. Just trying to imagine how the thing would work venting the exhuast gases? The twin setup looks nifty tho. Regarding the Shielder, I think the Germans also field a similar unit, I'll have a scrounge around for some pics.

dy031101 · March 05, 2008, 05:38:25 AM

I'm looking for more info on that one, too. Allegedly the below picture shows how the reloading is done. My guess is that the rear vent would open after firing, and spent shells would be ejected from there.

Quote from: Maverick on March 05, 2008, 04:15:05 AM
Autoloading RCL , that sounds like some scary stuff to me. Just trying to imagine how the thing would work venting the exhuast gases?

There is still a vent behind the rifle.

Mossie · March 05, 2008, 07:44:27 AM

How about similar weapon fits to what has been mentioned, but using Russian or refurbished Soviet equipment? Some enterprising companies may well gather the two together, it's becoming quite common to mix Western & Russian gear these days. Also, armies may want to upgrade their old M113's with weapons, or mount their existing weapons on an APC.

dy031101 · March 05, 2008, 07:48:22 AM

Quote from: Mossie on March 05, 2008, 07:44:27 AM
How about similar weapon fits to what has been mentioned, but using Russian or refurished Soviet equipment? Some enterprising companies may well gather the two together, it's becoming quite common to mix Western & Russian gear these days. Also, armies may want to upgrade their old M113's with weapons, or mount their existing weapons on an APC.

Yeah, I forgot to mention the Turkish ACV-SW...... does anyone know how the BMP-3 turret affects the infantry-carrying capacity of ACV-S though?

Mossie · March 06, 2008, 05:55:56 AM

The FV432 was of similar size to the M113, a touch longer. The FV433 Abbot was a SPG with a 105 gun based on the same chassis. Cut down the height of the M113 to relive some of the stresses Jeff mentioned earlier, pop a turret on & you have a cheap light SPG.

FV432 APC

FV433 Abbot SPG

There was also the Falcon, an Abbot with AAA 30mm Hispano Suiza cannon, it remained a prototype only. You could fit out a cut down M113 similarliy.

Falcon AAA

dy031101 · March 06, 2008, 11:19:25 AM

That reminds me of German 155mm Artillery Gun Module (AGM) based on MLRS chassis. Perhaps they can try mounting AGM on modified MTVL-UC as well?

And on the Russian gear front, how does a MTVL-based Pantsyr S1 SPAAG sound? Either install the system into MTVL APC or mount the shelter-based version onto MTVL-UC?

GTX · March 07, 2008, 11:26:15 AM

Taking the rocket idea further, maybe mount a HIMARS (see below) type module to the rear of a cut down M113?

Regards,

Greg

Jeffry Fontaine · March 21, 2008, 04:41:56 PM

Has anyone here attempted to create a stretched M113? I would like to know where on the M113 hull is the best place to make the cuts for the two hulls. The kits for this stretched M113 project could be Italeri, Academy, or Tamiya in 1/35th scale since I have enough donors from all three manufacturers to pair up.

Quote from: The Rat on March 02, 2008, 06:46:26 AMI'm getting the quivers now, not only have I spent a fair bit of time in those noisy shaky cans, but you're reminded me that I have to start scratching out a 166th scale one for a project.

Does getting tossed about in the back end of an M577 during REFORGER count?

Which reminds me that the same cutting question for the M113 needs to be addressed for the M577 to make a streched version of that as well.