Avro Manchester, Lancaster, Lancastrian, Lincoln, Shackleton

[Geoff_B]

Hi Nigel

Just thinking to minimise the effort the Airfix/Heller E-3 D/F AWACS has both the new CFM-56 Turbofans and the old original TF-33 engines which could be a possibility without wasting too much kits as you can still do the Awacs or Similar. Also one of the guys might still have them spare so you could use them (MartinH after his P-4 perhaps)

An alternative could be scratch building enging pods as fitted to the jet Tudor which would also allow for a wheel bay between the engines.

Other than that i'm not sure as you would need to get new engines from some source.

Cheers

Geoff B B)  

[Mairfrog]

Some Lancs were used as engine tets-beds, these may provide inspiration. The Nene, Avon and Python engines were all fitted to Lanc wings. Great long nacelles, very Jet Age.  ^_^

As a very rough estimate I reckon the Shack Griffon installation gave 4-5000 lbs thrust each. Two Avons should do it.  

How about four Proteus turbines? Or a pair of Kusnetsov MK12 copies complete with contra-props?  B)

What were those giant four-row radials that powered the Globemaster? They'd be fairly easy to codge up.

Ooh, I know, an over/under twin nacelle arrangement like the Short Sperrin.    

[elmayerle]

Globemaster II's had R4360's, same as B-36's, B-50's, and C-97's.  Heh, if you want to try something outre', try using four T40 turboprops, assuming you could get everything to work properly (you'd be more likely to do well with four T56's as used on the C-130 and P-3).

[Mike Wren]

I was thinking of using a set of wings/engines from a Shackleton I picked up free (2 left fuselage halves), and fitting them to a Lanc fuselage to produce an interim design which would have meant standard Lanc fuselages could be used along with newer wing/engines without too much disruption to the production lines prior to full scale Lincoln production in 1945 (and probably cancelled altogether as the war would have ended)

firstly, is this feasible? I think Shackleton wings are the same as a Lincoln's?

secondly, what sort of other mods could I do to it as a late war a/c? i.e. turrets, bulged bomb doors etc?

maybe do it as a Pathfinder or dedicated jammer?

 

[Mairfrog]

The Frog Shackelton is a Mk.3 so the wings have had their tips cropped and fitted with fuel tanks. The Undercarriage holes are further forward because the Mk.3 was a nosewheel aircraft. The engines are Griffons of course but the installation is very similar to the Merlin one on the Lincoln. The only discernable difference is that the Griffon exhaust apperture is slightly longer; the engines were of remarkable similar overall dimensions.

Perhaps the Lanc wingtips could be grafted onto the Shack wings? Whether or not you use the Shack nacelles depends upon the kind of engine you had in mind. The trickiest part will be getting Frog wings into Airfix fuselage holes.

For turrets etc I'd go with late model Lanc stuff: Twin cannon turrets in the tail and dorsal positions (slightly further forward on the last Lancs) and perhaps some kind of radar prediction or warning system. The Lincoln nose turret is ugly so I'd go with a standard Lanc jobby or maybe leave it off altogether. Cover the nose in secret arials or something.

An old Airfix magazine showed how to make a Lincoln out of the first Airfix Lanc and a Frog Shack. I might be able to find scans of it somewhere. I can't remember where they found the four blade props but Aeroclub can provide those of course. Mind you, a Lanc with contraprops would be pretty cool.  B)

[Mairfrog]

I found those Airfix mag scans. The big problem is extending the wing span at the root. The Shack has a much wider fuselage than the Lincoln so the span will be too short if cobbled onto a Lanc.

The wingtips can be cut from the Lanc but the ailerons are a different shape. Still, you could always go with the Shack tips, how about hanging a couple of performance enhancing RR Wellands off them, robbed from an Airfix Meteor III?  

I can send the article if you like, its made of huge image files so your email can crash.    

[Mike Wren]

thanks for all the info Mairfrog, I think I'm gonna need to get all the various bits & pieces together & play about with it all, I've finally got hold of the Warpaint book on the Shackleton too so that should help now I've got drawings for that & the Lincoln

I'd forgotten that the Shackleton had Griffons as opposed to Merlins, they look so similar though    I think I'll use the contra props just to make it look that little bit different. Might do an otherwise standard Lanc later with a jet in the tail like one of the post war test a/c had...

I quite like the look of the faired over nose turret too so might go with that. Does anyone do late dorsal & rear turrets though?

Lee, thanks for the offer of a fuselage but I picked up another Shack this week to do the proposed enlarged MR.4/5 (?) version with a single tailfin



link

[Mairfrog]

Does anyone do late dorsal & rear turrets though?

The dorsal one was a Martin turret IIRC so you could rob one from a suitable US medium bomber.  

[Nick]

Would a Fat Man or Little Boy nuke fit under a Lancaster bomber?
What about a Blue Streak missile launching from a silo in an Lincolnshire potato field?

Nick B)  

[Radish]

617 were training in '45 in the US.....they weren't there for the scenery!
How do I know?
Saw a crewman's Log Book  

[Matt Wiser]

Only two aircraft were considered by the AAF for the atomic strike role in 1944-45. One was the Lancaster. Second was the B-29. Lanc was rejected due to range limit from the Marianas, (3,000 miles round trip) and the dimensions of the implosion (Fat Man) bomb.  The RAF bomber force that was scheduled for the Pacific was to be based on Okinawa. Little Boy would've fit in a Lancaster's bomb bay, though.

[Radish]

What was the ceiling on a Lanc? I think a B-29 would have been the bare minimum for dispensing a nuclear jobbie at the time.
Martin....resurrect your bomber command 1/144th B-29  

[elmayerle]

Only two aircraft were considered by the AAF for the atomic strike role in 1944-45. One was the Lancaster. Second was the B-29. Lanc was rejected due to range limit from the Marianas, (3,000 miles round trip) and the dimensions of the implosion (Fat Man) bomb.  The RAF bomber force that was scheduled for the Pacific was to be based on Okinawa. Little Boy would've fit in a Lancaster's bomb bay, though.

Interestingly enough, the A-bomb carrying B-29s used the same shackles for the A-bomb as the Lancaster used for the Grand Slam.  I found this out on a tour through SIlver Hill when they were rebuilding the Enola Gay.

[Sisko]

I have always thought of a six or eight engined intercontinental version. Something akin to the B-36

[retro_seventies]

i'm a fool, but i'm a predictable fool.

seaplane, using a sunderland hull - underwing pylons for stores, and a bomb bay too, for torps and depth charges.  Radar to spot those sneaky u-boats when they surface at night.

early AEW, pre shackleton?

arctic supply in white, with balck anti glare and de-icer, and lots of day glo orange? - ski undercarriage, obviously.