Avro Manchester, Lancaster, Lancastrian, Lincoln, Shackleton

[Roger the Cabin Boy]

From the reliable authority that is Wikipedia - 

"Prior to the decision to use the B-29, serious consideration had been given to using the British Avro Lancaster to deliver the weapon, which would have required much less modification, but the idea was vetoed by General Groves who thought it "beyond comprehension to use a British plane to deliver an American A-bomb".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silverplate

[rickshaw]

Bare metal?  Stars and bars?   Perhaps with B-29 "Enola Gay" markings?   Be an interesting exhibition piece...

[pyro-manic]

Grand Slam mods to enable carriage of the rather bulky nuke? USAAF markings, maybe Tiger Force white over black scheme?

[Roger the Cabin Boy]

With one of those large saddle tanks for the required range. 

[Taiidantomcat]

With one of those large saddle tanks for the required range. 

I don't mean to let reality intrude but would the Lancaster be capable of such feats? Just curious because I remember going to the atomic museum as a kid and watching a documentary that said it was so heavy even the B-29 could barely lift the first A-Bomb.

You may resume your regular Whiff goodness 

[rickshaw]

Fat Man Atomic Bomb
Weight    10,200 pounds (4,600 kg)
Length    10.6 feet (3.2 m)
Diameter    5 feet (1.5 m)

Little Boy Atomic Bomb
Weight    8,900 pounds (4,000 kg)
Length    120 inches (3.0 m)
Diameter    28 inches (710 mm)

Grand Slam Bomb
Weight    22,000 lb (11 ton)
Length    26 ft 6 in (7.70 m)
length    Tail 13 ft 6 in (4.11 m)
Diameter    3 ft 10 in (1.17 m)

Lancaster
# Maximum speed: 240 kn (280 mph, 450 km/h) at 15,000 ft (5,600 m)
# Range: 2,700 nmi (3,000 mi, 4,600 km) with minimal bomb load
(inflight refuelling considerably increased that and was planned for Tiger Force)


B-29
# Maximum speed: 357 mph (310 knots, 574 km/h)
# Cruise speed: 220 mph (190 knots, 350 km/h)
# Stall speed: 105 mph (91 knots, 170 km/h)
# Combat range: 3,250 mi (2,820 nmi, 5,230 km)

So, the Atomic bomb was very much within the ability of the Lancaster.

[kitnut617]

With one of those large saddle tanks for the required range. 

I don't mean to let reality intrude but would the Lancaster be capable of such feats? Just curious because I remember going to the atomic museum as a kid and watching a documentary that said it was so heavy even the B-29 could barely lift the first A-Bomb.

You may resume your regular Whiff goodness 

I have photos of B-29's carrying two Grand Slams (22,000 lb each) or one T-12 (44,000 lb) so I don't know why they couldn't lift 10,000 lb with ease

[Taiidantomcat]

Thanks Gents! Maybe I just remembered it wrong on the documentary wanted to be overly dramatic 

[jcf]

Lift the bomb? Yes.
Fly the same mission profile? No.

[RLBH]

I don't mean to let reality intrude but would the Lancaster be capable of such feats? Just curious because I remember going to the atomic museum as a kid and watching a documentary that said it was so heavy even the B-29 could barely lift the first A-Bomb.

In physical dimensions, it was really a bit too large for the stock B-29, because there was a partition below the wing spar that limited the length of bombs carried. One of the mods to the Silverplate bombers was to remove this bulkhead: in normal USAAF service, bombs were stacked vertically in short, deep bays, which is why the B-17 and B-24 couldn't fit the bomb - they had bays designed around the length of 1,000 to 2,000 pound bombs. British practice, on the other hand, was to have a single tier of bombs in a long, shallow bay, which meant that all you had to do to carry really big bombs was to leave the door off.

My pet crazy theory is that the Lancaster for the nuclear bomb would have worked rather like Project Aphrodite. That way, it doesn't matter that the aircraft won't escape.

[Roger the Cabin Boy]

My pet crazy theory is that the Lancaster for the nuclear bomb would have worked rather like Project Aphrodite. That way, it doesn't matter that the aircraft won't escape.

  The Aphrodites had a rather poor safety record... 

[rickshaw]

With one of those large saddle tanks for the required range. 

I don't mean to let reality intrude but would the Lancaster be capable of such feats? Just curious because I remember going to the atomic museum as a kid and watching a documentary that said it was so heavy even the B-29 could barely lift the first A-Bomb.

You may resume your regular Whiff goodness 

I have photos of B-29's carrying two Grand Slams (22,000 lb each) or one T-12 (44,000 lb) so I don't know why they couldn't lift 10,000 lb with ease

It wasn't the weight which was the problem.  It was the size of the weapon.  The B-29 carried those loads externally.  When originally designed all loads were carried internally.   The USAAF was concerned that they (a) couldn't make the bomb small enough to fit the bombbay of the B-29 and (b) that the bomb shackles would be strong enough, inside the bombbay to carry the weight of the bomb.   The Lancaster had a large, long, unobstructed bombbay and the British had already developed a system for the carriage of 10,000+lb bombs.    So, rather than waste time and effort redesigning the B-29, a suggestion was put forward to simply use Lancasters for the A-bombs.

[rickshaw]

Lift the bomb? Yes.
Fly the same mission profile? No.

They obviously, out of necessity would have had to change the profile which is of course relatively easy compared to getting the USAAF to adopt a British aircraft.  Once that hurdle is crossed, everything else would flow along.

[Taiidantomcat]

Lift the bomb? Yes.
Fly the same mission profile? No.

Thank you for that, I thought there might be a little more to it than just numbers/stats.   

[jcf]

Lift the bomb? Yes.
Fly the same mission profile? No.

They obviously, out of necessity would have had to change the profile which is of course relatively easy compared to getting the USAAF to adopt a British aircraft.  Once that hurdle is crossed, everything else would flow along.

Wrong, no Lanc could carry either bomb on the Tinian to Japan round trip.
Nor would carrying either weapon externally have been smart, particularly not the very sensitive
and persnickety plutonium implosion bomb.