Avro Manchester, Lancaster, Lancastrian, Lincoln, Shackleton

[Radish]

Taking a look at the original post by Jennings.....

USAAF B-27 Lancaster....available in quite a few versions, like thespecial dropping the Tall Boy?

Warming to that idea, but it'll have to be Natural Metal with really bright markings.
 

[Davey B]

Like the AEW idea, like some kind of obscene Lank-Nimrod hybrid with radars in the nose and tail turret positions.

Jet-assisted nuclear bomber for an extended war?

[Alvis 3.1]

Read somewhere once that the Lanc had been looked at by the US as an atom bomb dropper, if the B-29 hadn't worked out..altho they also had the B-32 in the works, but I think the real issue was the engines that powered both of them, so, throw in a few engine fires and viola! Enola Gay Lanc!


Oh crud..I was keeping THAT under wraps too!


Alvis 3.1

[TsrJoe]

has anyone out there ever seen a drg or description of a Lancaster/Lancastrian with jets mounted inboard?
iv found a mention of a 4 jet Lancaster 'jet bomber' (Metrovik) drawn up by Roy Chadwick but unfortunately iv no further info as yet
(hmmm..i was even wondering if the engines would be mounted in 'paired pods' similar to the Avro Tudor 8 and Avro Canada Avroliner?)

happy speculating, cheers, joe

[Daryl J.]

OK...

How's about streamlining the  Lanc. and removing the upper canopy completely placing the pilot in a smooth glass nose,  turboprops, and a P-3C-esque probe out the tail.    


Daryl J.

[nev]

Many moons ago I read of a proposed Lancaster with NO defensive armament - no turrets/guns/gunners.  Supposedly the savings in weight and reduction in drag would have made it faster than the Ju-88 and Me-110 nightfighters that feasted on Lancasters every night.

Alternatively you could add a belly turret of some sort, the lack of one being the real achilles heel of the Lanc    

[monkeyhanger]

The jet powered Mosquito thread (that I can't find now) spurred me on to think about a jet powered Lancaster. Keep the four Merlins and build up the outer nacelles to have a jet engine each. I've had a look at the Shackleton at Duxford (got the kids with that one, how many engines!) and there are opening air intakes to feed the jets. I have a vast supply of spares (all in storage, damn!) but it would be easy to graft on the jet outlets from a Frog Ar234. What do you think?

What speed would be achieveable
What armament (delete turrets, use cannon)
What time frame

I have a few Lancasters, one with me not in storage (hurrah), so I could make a start.

[Tornado]

Lanc's were tested with other engines. A Nene in the rear fuselage with the jet pipe where the turret was and Dart (and other turboprops) were tested in the nose. The Nene actually powered the whole bomber with all four props feathered on at least one flight.

A Dart powered Lanc/Linc/Shack makes me drool just to think about it.  

[elmayerle]

How about a Lancaster, or derivative, re-engined with four Trent turboprops?

[upnorth]

I seem to recall seeing a picture of an RCAF Lancaster sporting a pair of Orenda jets in place of the piston engines on the outer engine stations as part  of the CF-100 development program.

[upnorth]

Ah yes! Here she be! FM209

[jcf]

Lancaster/Lincoln/Lancastrian turbine engine testbeds list, according to Modeller's Datafile 4.

Lancaster
Armstrong-Siddeley Python Turbo-prop with contra-props - 2 in outboard positions.
Rolls-Royce Dart Turbo-prop - 1 nose mounted.
Swedish STAL Dovern - 1 belly mounted.
Metrovick F2/1 - 1 tail mounted.
Metrovick F2/4 - 1 tail mounted.
Metrovick F2/4 - 1 bomb bay mounted.
Armstrong-Siddeley A.S.X - 1 bomb bay mounted.
Armstrong-Siddeley Mamba Turbo-prop - 1 nose mounted.
Armstrong-Siddeley Adder - 1 tail mounted.
Armstrong-Siddeley Viper - 1 tail mounted.
Orenda TR.5 - 2 in outboard positions.

Lincoln
Bristol Phoebus - 1 bomb bay mounted.
Bristol Theseus Turbo-prop - 2 in outboard positions.
Rolls-Royce Avon - 2 in outboard positions.
Armstrong-Siddeley Python Turbo-prop with contra-props - 2 in outboard positions.
Bristol Proteus Turbo-prop - 2 in outboard positions.
Rolls-Royce Avon - 1 belly mounted.
Rolls-Royce Tyne Turbo-prop - 1 nose mounted.
Napier Naiad Turbo-prop - 1 nose mounted.
Napier Double Naiad Turbo-prop - 1 nose mounted.
(The Napier Nomad Turbo-compound Diesel was also tested on a Lincoln.)

Lancastrian
Rolls-Royce Avon - 2 in outboard positions.
Rolls-Royce Nene - 2 in outboard positions.
Armstrong-Siddeley Sapphire - 2 in outboard positions.
De Havilland Ghost - 2 in outboard positions.
(It had been planned to test the R-R Clyde on a Lancastrian - 2 in outboard positions, the engines were never installed.)


Wicked innit?

So fer my money I'd go Lancastrian type fuse mods...the long pointy nose looks too cool, Lincoln style wings mounting four Pythons. Probably add in a smaller asymmetrical blown canopy arrangement

Cheers, Jon

[Mossie]

Lanc's were tested with other engines. A Nene in the rear fuselage with the jet pipe where the turret was and Dart (and other turboprops) were tested in the nose. The Nene actually powered the whole bomber with all four props feathered on at least one flight.

A Dart powered Lanc/Linc/Shack makes me drool just to think about it.

Here you go, Lancaster LL735 with sting in the tail, although I think it's a Metrovick F.2.







I've seen a model of this, it was Bluesteel, who sometimes posts on here.  He moulded the intake from Milliput & used a fountain pen cartridge for the jet nozzle, looked very effective!

Archie, for comparison, this aircraft is a Lancaster with the turrets faired over, the aircraft on the other page is a Lancastrian, they look quite different.  With many Lancasters left after the war, Avro converted several to transports, removing the turrets & bomb aimers window & fairing them & replacing the bomb bay with a cargo cabin.  Some where used as airliners.  Handley Page did the same with the Halifax, becoming known as the Halton, but it's a much rarer beast.  Both are much more graceful than their bomber counterparts.

Lancastrian: http://www.jaapteeuwen.com/ww2aircraft/htm...lancastrian.htm
Halton: http://www.handleypage.com/Aircraft_hp70.html

Apoligies if you already know this!

[Archibald]

Well there's many things to whatif around the Manchester/ Lancaster/ Lincoln family.

The Manchester itself - after all they managed to save the Typhoon and Tempest-

So why not a Sabre / Centaurus Manchester ?

There's also high speed / high height Lancasters, as seen here (secret projects board)
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/inde...;prev_next=next

I fell in love with the third project. This is the type 684, a five-Merlin Lancaster

In the alt-history "France fights on"  an australian genius called Mark Bailey imagined a whole lineage of high-height Vickers bomber.
He started with the Wellington VI, then the Type 684, and ended with the mighty vickers type C as seen on cover of Tony Buttler book...
All this aircrafts are used by the  squadron 109.

For this board I've drawn a profile of the Type 684 prototype, which Mark Bailey called Lincoln (because its the main Lancaster derivative in this alt-history).

[kitnut617]

A Merlin Whirlwind would have been a possibility, I read that  (and I think I mentioned this before somewhere here) from the trailing edge backwards, the Whirlwind was skinned with magnesium sheet (a non-strategic materiel at the time) and some structural members also, if this had been all changed to aluminum, then not much of a physical change had to be done, aluminum being about twice as heavy as magnesium, and this would have offset a lot of the weight difference between the Merlin and Peregrine.  If more weight needed to be move rearwards, the guns could have been placed in a nacelle under the fuselage near the wings trailing edge.  I think this is how I would build a model of it anyway.

Robert