First T-Tail Aircraft?

John Howling Mouse · February 20, 2008, 05:21:04 PM

Just occurred to me today that I don't know what the very first operational T-Tail aircraft was.

Does anyone know or can fling in a guess?

There really should be a museum exclusively dedicated to T-Tails.

GTX · February 20, 2008, 05:24:35 PM

In its purest form, I'd say the F-104.

Regards,

Greg

Jeffry Fontaine · February 20, 2008, 05:34:56 PM

XF-88 and F-101 both preceded the F-104.

What about the Ta-183 and the MiG-15?

Brian da Basher · February 20, 2008, 05:46:03 PM

My guess is you'd have to go back further than that. I seem to recall some early Curtiss designs having something close to a T-tail. If you're talking mass-production, that's another story.

Brian da Basher

kitnut617 · February 20, 2008, 05:55:20 PM

Barry, the T-Tail was a design signature of Hans Multhopp who was the Chief Designer at Focke Wulfe during the war. The Ta.183 was his design BTW, not Kurt Tank'. After the war he went to RAE in the UK where he designed the RAE Transonic Research Aircraft (a stretched out Ta.183 powered by an Avon) which didn't get built but then he moved on to work at Martin. It was there he designed the XB-51 which flew in a competition against the Canberra and I think some of the research went to McDonnell for the XF-101.

Messerschmitt also used his research in one version of the Me.1101 too. The XF-88 didn't have a T-Tail BTW.

gooberliberation · February 20, 2008, 05:58:17 PM

Quote from: jeffryfontaine on February 20, 2008, 05:34:56 PM
What about the Ta-183 and the MiG-15?

The Lavochkin La-168 and La-15 had even purer t-tails than the MiG-15, the latter of which was operational by 1949.

jcf · February 20, 2008, 11:05:55 PM

The Ta-183 was never built let alone operational, and the MiG 15 does not have a T-tail, it has a cruciform empennage.

The Curtiss XF15C-1 of 1946 was the first jet-age powered aircraft to fly with a true T-tail.

The MiG I-270 rocket fighter design dates to the same period, and began glide tests at the end of 1946.
The only other MiG with a T-tail was the I-360(SM-2), but it was soon modified and had its horizontal surfaces moved down to the fuselage.

The first operational major service type fighter to have a T-tail was the Gloster Javelin, the prototype preceded the F-101 and the F-104 prototypes into the air by two years. The Javelin entered service with No.46 Squadron in February, 1956; the F-101A with the 27th Strategic Fighter Wing in May, 1957, and the F-104A with the 83rd Fighter Interceptor Squadron in January, 1958.
The first operational service type bomber with a T-tail was the Victor, although the Martin B-51 had flown much earlier.

Jon

Radish · February 21, 2008, 01:55:09 AM

Britain FIRST then....in operational use.

Lovely F-104s...mmmmmmmmm.

Meanwhile, what's next for the T-tail treatment?
F-86 Sabre?
F-4 Phantom?

kitnut617 · February 21, 2008, 05:52:19 AM

You might be interested in this design, Petter did this very early in the EE P.1 concept stage using research of Multhopp'

Edit: Oop! sorry didn't expect the image to come out that big, Phil Butler gave me this BTW.

Hobbes · February 21, 2008, 05:55:26 AM

Would the Whirlwind qualify?

philp · February 21, 2008, 12:24:02 PM

Hobbes,
They mean T tail, not t tail

Got this off the first-to-fly site
1913 Wright Model F -- This was the first Wright aircraft with a fuselage. This fuselage, they found, eliminated the need for the blinkers. It was also the first airplane with a T-tail -- the Wright Company moved the elevator to rest atop the rudder.

B777LR · February 21, 2008, 02:40:24 PM

Quote from: Radish on February 21, 2008, 01:55:09 AM
Britain FIRST then....in operational use.

Lovely F-104s...mmmmmmmmm.

Meanwhile, what's next for the T-tail treatment?
F-86 Sabre?
F-4 Phantom?

Hmm, the F-86 shouldnt be a full T-tail, but more like a mid set t-tail (not the small t), ala MiG-15

jcf · February 21, 2008, 03:58:26 PM

Quote from: B777LR on February 21, 2008, 02:40:24 PM
Quote from: Radish on February 21, 2008, 01:55:09 AM
Britain FIRST then....in operational use.

Lovely F-104s...mmmmmmmmm.

Meanwhile, what's next for the T-tail treatment?
F-86 Sabre?
F-4 Phantom?

Hmm, the F-86 shouldnt be a full T-tail, but more like a mid set t-tail (not the small t), ala MiG-15

Mid-set "t-tails" are generally referred to as cruciform tails. The Fairey Barracuda, Westland Whirlwind, Caravelle, MiG 15 etc. are all examples of cruciform tails.

Jon

Radish · February 22, 2008, 10:39:22 AM

Anyone got a photo of the Hunter mock-up?
I can scan one from the "Hunter In Action" book, Baz?

John Howling Mouse · February 22, 2008, 02:41:26 PM

Quote from: Radish on February 22, 2008, 10:39:22 AM
Anyone got a photo of the Hunter mock-up?
I can scan one from the "Hunter In Action" book, Baz?

Would be appreciated if you could. Mmmmm, t-tails, cruciform tails...they're all good, baby.