F-11 (F11F) Tiger

[KJ_Lesnick]

Why couldn't Grumman have just taken all the equipment required for naval-ops off the design?

[MAD]

I knew I had it and read it somewhere - and now I have found it in a book titled 'The Arms Bazaar' - The Companies, The Dealers, The Bribes: From Vickers to Lockheed.

Extracts from it are:
The Luftwaffe, in their technological zeal, had insisted on overloading it (F-104G Starfighter) with equipment which made it much heavier and more complex than the original model (F-104A/C Starfighter)

In the following seven years up to December 1968, ninety-one Starfighters crashed (in the Luftwaffe)


The following point probably explains as to why the Luftwaffe had so many accidents with its Starfighters in the early years of its operational service!

In the words of the Minister of (West German) Defence, Franz-Josef Strauss himself: 'Forbidden to fly military aircraft for eleven years after World War Two, we had to call on a brave, young generation to literally plunge into a new and complex equipment, instruction and weapon system in one long, all-encompassing jump'

M.A.D

[GTX]

In the following seven years up to December 1968, ninety-one Starfighters crashed (in the Luftwaffe)


The following point probably explains as to why the Luftwaffe had so many accidents with its Starfighters in the early years of its operational service!

In the words of the Minister of (West German) Defence, Franz-Josef Strauss himself: 'Forbidden to fly military aircraft for eleven years after World War Two, we had to call on a brave, young generation to literally plunge into a new and complex equipment, instruction and weapon system in one long, all-encompassing jump'

M.A.D

"My Logbook" by Günther Rall (see here) has some interesting comments on the Bundesluftwaffe F-104 accident rate or Starfighter crisis as it was known - you can even read an excerpt from the book here.  The whole chapter (and indeed book) makes very interesting reading.  He makes the point that the problem was the result of many issues including training (both aircrew and support technicians), lack of resources (parts and people), insufficient flying hours amongst others.  Interestingly the man he credits most with resolving the problems is Dieter Hrabak (former Commander of Jagdgeschwader 52).

I recommend this book to all - mine is personally signed by Günther Rall.

Regards,

Greg

[anthonyp]

Not really adding to the thread, yet feeling this bizarre need to add to it, here's my updated F-11, the USNR F-11S circa 1984.

[Mossie]

Oh, no, that adds to it all right!  Lovely scheme on a bird in the twilight of it's career.

Did my own Danish Tiger, as an alterntative to their F-104's.

[NARSES2]

And here's my Aeronvale cutie - what a lot of little tigers we have 

[tigercat2]

I just did a USAF F-11 in ADC grey with tiger meet markings; was inspired by an earlier comment in this thread; pictures to follow.


Wes W.

[tigercat2]

Here is my USAF F-11 Tiger, with Tigermeet markings.  A great looking aircraft, Hasegawa 1/72.

Wes W.

[tigercat2]

Yesterday a friend of mine went to New Bern, NC, and saw a Tiger in a small park right off of US 17:

http://www.blueangels.org/Aircraft/Stick/F11/802/802.htm


It was interesting, since we had just been discussing this aircraft.


Wes W.

[Mossie]

Here is my USAF F-11 Tiger, with Tigermeet markings.  A great looking aircraft, Hasegawa 1/72.

Wes W.

That pretty much reminds me of the Gnats in Hotshots in grey with 'THE NAVY' titles!

The Gnat & the Tiger are both quite similar in shape & proportion.  I've toyed with the idea of using an F11F as a basis for some of the larger Gnat projects, it would be easier to use that then to try & scale up a Gnat.

[tigercat2]

Hotshots - a great movie!!!


Wes W.

[Mossie]

Knew I had pics somewhere, here you go!





As opposed to using a Tiger to represent a larger Gnat, if you were daft enough you could shrink a Tiger...

[Mossie]

I just picked up a copy of the Naval Avation volume on the F11F.  I've just leafed through it quickly, but I found some snippets about armament.  It was cleared for a mud moving role & could carry iron bombs, bullpups & rockets.  The Tiger was mocked up with Bendix Eagles & would have been able to carry it, although it had no provision for the extra avionics required.  Could it have carried a single missile with the avionics in a pod on the other wing?  It was also mocked up with nulcear weapons, maybe this is something that would have been developed had the Tiger had a longer service history?

[tigercat2]

In some ways its too bad that the Tiger was not selected by the Luftwaffe (Lockheed would not have been real happy); probably would have had a lower accident rate, but that is the fun of our What If world.  Here is a West German Tiger from the 1/72 Hasegawa kit; a really good looking aircraft, IMHO.


Wes W.

[elmayerle]

The Tiger was mocked up with Bendix Eagles & would have been able to carry it, although it had no provision for the extra avionics required.  Could it have carried a single missile with the avionics in a pod on the other wing?

i'd say the trick would have been to have another aircraft doing the target acquisitiion and guidance while the Tiger carried two Eagles out to launch at the target, something, I suppose of a reuseable zeroth stage for the Eagle.