F-11 (F11F) Tiger

[KJ_Lesnick]

Tigercat,

Is that an F11F-1F or just an F11F-1?  Because the kind that Grumman wanted to sell to the Luftwaffe was the F11F-1F

[tigercat2]

It's just a stock Hasegawa F-11 with a ghost grey paint job and Luftwaffe markings.  So that would make it a J-65 powered F-11.


Wes W.

[dy031101]

That pretty much reminds me of the Gnats in Hotshots in grey with 'THE NAVY' titles!

The Gnat & the Tiger are both quite similar in shape & proportion.  I've toyed with the idea of using an F11F as a basis for some of the larger Gnat projects, it would be easier to use that then to try & scale up a Gnat.

As opposed to using a Tiger to represent a larger Gnat, if you were daft enough you could shrink a Tiger...

Actually...... I found the idea of a supersonic Phallus fun.

A bigger, faster, and meaner Phallus armed with around a dozen of Stinger missiles...... um......  

[elmayerle]

It's just a stock Hasegawa F-11 with a ghost grey paint job and Luftwaffe markings.  So that would make it a J-65 powered F-11.

Actually, as I suggested way earlier, I rather like the idea of European Tigers getting afterburning Avon 200s or Avon 300s to replace the J65 (which was a license-built Sapphire).  The dimensions are close as is the performance and the later Avons definitely are more reliable.  I wonder if dry Avons would go well in A-4 variants to serve along side them?

[tigercat2]

I always thought that the A-4 would make a great addition to the Luftwaffe.

Wes W.

[GTX]

Random thought:  F11F-1 Tiger in RAN FAA use instead of A-4G Skyhawk.

Regards,

Greg

[skysurfer808]

Random thought:  F11F-1 Tiger in RAN FAA use instead of A-4G Skyhawk.

That would look great as a Whif, either Gull Gray over white or in the final blue and gray Skyhawk scheme.  The Super Tiger would surely be better able to blast off Melbourne's tiny deck.  After watching Youtube videos of Melbourne in action I have to say I'm impressed at the skill of RAN FAA Aviators operating off of her....the Skyhawks look out of scale and the Trackers look gigantic.

Skysurfer808

[rickshaw]

Random thought:  F11F-1 Tiger in RAN FAA use instead of A-4G Skyhawk.

Regards,

Greg

I seem to remember it was the RAAF rather than the RAN that was interested in the Tiger at one point.

[Mossie]

Recentely got the Naval Fighters volume on the F11F-1F Super Tiger by Corky Meyer, it's very revealing.  Corky Meyer was heavily involved in the development & sales of the F11F-1F & most of the commentary is on the sales pitch, as opposed to the volume on the Tiger where he was more involved in the test flying.

There are GA diagrams for several unbuilt versions including weapons load outs (the unusual dorsal mounted Sidewinder set up features), two seater & recce variants.  There are detail differences to the protoype, the drawings being listed as the G-98J, the prototype being the G-98L.  It doesn't state if the drawings are earlier variants or if they're representative of production (EDIT, worked this one out, the protoypes used the Tiger canopy but this would have restricted the dorsal AAM rail, production versions would have a redesigned canopy.

Potential customers were listed as:

USA (USN not interested due to the F-8 coming on line, USAF similar with the F-104)
UK (Grumman unknowingly chose the exact day of the anouncement of the '57 White Paper to present to the MoD!)
France (not interested due to the Mirage III)
Switzerland (very interested but chose the Mirage III, book gives the reason being a French born politico having family links to Dassault)
Canada (lost out to the F-104 due to Lockheed finding out details of Grummans co-manufacturing package close to the deadline)
Japan (late minute U-turn by Japenese officials to favour the F-104)
Germany (lost out due to superior Lockheed sales team)

Meyer mentions that although he felt Grumman had the superior aircraft overall, Lockheed had a much better sales team.  To qoute, "Grumman sold the meat, Lockheed sold the sizzle".  He felt vindicated when he was proved right about various unforgiving aspects of the F-104's flight profile.  He mentions Lockheeds sale team was much was larger & much more experienced, only breifly mentioning the bribery to say some of the team 'were hung by their own ropes'.

[MAD]

I seem to remember it was the RAAF rather than the RAN that was interested in the Tiger at one point.

Interesting!!
I would be interested to know what you have on this RAAF interest in the Tiger Rickshaw!!
Could you PM me with the details?

M.A.D

[Mossie]

Pics of Super Tiger prototype dorsal Sidewinder rail borrowed from Key Publishing, originally scanned from the book:
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?p=1533210

Top view


Showing the dummy Sidewinder that split for the canopy to operate, shows why it needed to be redesigned.  Also shows the folding ventral fins stowed behind the horizontal tail, these were found to be unnecessary & were deleted from the first protype & not included on the second.

[Mossie]

Grumman G98J GA drawings, mostly from Secret Projects & again originally from the book.
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,455.msg3053.html#msg3053

Sidewinder rail deployment & internal arrangement (this one from the Key Publishing thread mentioned earlier)


4 Sidewinders & droptanks


2 Sidewinders, 2 Sparrows & droptanks


Weapons loadouts


Recce nose


Two seat interceptor


Two seat recce

[NARSES2]

Thanks for posting Simon, interesting carriage of those Sidewinders.

Always thought the Tiger and F11F was a "preaty" fighter. Built mine as Aeronvale 

[Mossie]

It is lovely isn't it?  One of my favourites, for years I always heard that the Hunter was probably the prettiest jet fighter built & I always wondered what other contenders there were.  I worked out it was the Tiger & I should whisper this around other Brits, but I think the Tiger is the prettier...   I think the short nose isn't as nice, also the Super Tiger fattened it out a bit & wasn't quite as pretty but still better than most mach 2 capable aircraft.

The Hase kit is nice but I think we need a new one of this beautiful machine.

[rickshaw]

Blasphemer!  Burn the witch!  Burn the heretic! 

I've always maintained that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  I think both the Tiger and the Hunter are good looking aircraft.  I don't need to play favourites.