B-35 and B-49 Northrop's Flying Wings

[kitnut617]

Awhile back, there was some comment in a thread about the fact the old AMT XB-35 kit was hard to come by (but I can't find it now), I had made a comment that as Italeri had a number of the old AMT moulds I was sure the Y/XB-35 would turn up again.  So guess what is listed in the 'Future Release' column on Hannants' website:   http://www.hannants.co.uk/search/?FULL=IT1277

Robert

[Daryl J.]

But will they come with the necessary Isreali and Canadian markings?     It's highly unlikely that the Dutch and Norwegian decals will be included either although the Royal Sahara AF might actually make the cut.  (Thumbsup icon)



Daryl J., wondering a bit about the XB-49 as well................

[kitnut617]

I've got mine already Jeffry, two Y/XB-35's and the YB-49, this is the only one built at the moment.  Eventually it will have two Grand Slams installed 

[Joe C-P]

One of these years I'm going to build my USN PS-1 version.

The sticking point has been trying to find a decal of Marilyn Monroe in her Pl*yb*y pose of the right size for the underside.

JoeP

[sequoiaranger]

Whether prop (B-35) or jet-powered (B-49), the issue with the all-wing aircraft was stability. In 1950 the technology just wasn't there to correct the instabilitites as they happened, and the all-wing projects were abandoned for more "traditional" aircraft. Nowadays, with "fly-by-wire" and instant feedback systems, it would be no sweat.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

I've got mine already Jeffry, two Y/XB-35's and the YB-49, this is the only one built at the moment.  Eventually it will have two Grand Slams installed

Hi Robert,

Please tell me more of this Grand Slam version that you speak of.  This is something that I find interesting. 



Other ideas that may or may not have been discussed in the past regarding the Northrop flying wing designs:

KB-35 and KB-49 tanker aircraft equipped with hose and drogue or the flying boom to refuel Air Force and Navy aircraft. 

EB-35 and EB-49 dedicated electronic warfare aircraft. 

EB-35 and EB-49 airborne warning and control aircraft with large radar in the position of your choosing.

RB-35 and RB-49 well there was a real world reconnaissance version of the RB-49 not that it got very far thanks to politics, the Air Force, and Northrop.  Maybe a WHIF version with a battery of cameras fitted in a ventral position? 

[KJ_Lesnick]

Jeffry Fontaine,

Please tell me more of this Grand Slam version that you speak of.  This is something that I find interesting.

I'm not Robert, but the Grand Slam was a type of nuclear weapon.  It was carried by the B-47.  It weighed 22,000 or 22,500 lbs if I recall correctly.


KJ Lesnick

[GTX]

Jeffry Fontaine,

Please tell me more of this Grand Slam version that you speak of.  This is something that I find interesting.

I'm not Robert, but the Grand Slam was a type of nuclear weapon.  It was carried by the B-47.  It weighed 22,000 or 22,500 lbs if I recall correctly.


KJ Lesnick

No, I believe the Grand Slam referred to here was a conventional bomb of 22,000 lb carried by Lancasters (though I have also seen pics of B-29s and B-36s with them).  The 10 ton (22,000 pound) "Grand Slam" was 26-feet, 6-inches long. Its hardened casing was cast in a single piece in a sand mold, using a concrete core. The "Grand Slam" could reportedly penetrate though 20+ ft of concrete.

"Grand Slam" was also the code name of a highly classified modification project strictly concerned with atomic matters. The "Grand Slam" modifications would allow the Convair B-36 to carry atomic bombs, which the Air Force believed might weigh more than 40,000 pounds. Since the 10,000-pound M-121, when properly dropped, could inflict the damage of a 40,000-pound bomb, curiosity and rumors most likely explained the ensuing confusion. As a matter of fact, the "Grand Slam" designation was also loosely applied to other conventional bombs of the M-121 category.

Regards,

Greg

[Daryl J.]

How about a late, late version of the B-35/49 with winglets and thin, extended fuselage that has canards and a butterfly tail done in Arctic markings.

[GTX]

KB-35 and KB-49 tanker aircraft equipped with hose and drogue or the flying boom to refuel Air Force and Navy aircraft.

That would make a cool flying diorama with perhaps something like a couple of Grumman Panthers hooked up behind.

Regards,

Greg

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Jeffry Fontaine,

Please tell me more of this Grand Slam version that you speak of.  This is something that I find interesting.

I'm not Robert, but the Grand Slam was a type of nuclear weapon.  It was carried by the B-47.  It weighed 22,000 or 22,500 lbs if I recall correctly.

KJ Lesnick

No, I believe the Grand Slam referred to here was a conventional bomb of 22,000 lb carried by Lancasters (though I have also seen pics of B-29s and B-36s with them).  The 10 ton (22,000 pound) "Grand Slam" was 26-feet, 6-inches long. Its hardened casing was cast in a single piece in a sand mold, using a concrete core. The "Grand Slam" could reportedly penetrate though 20+ ft of concrete.

"Grand Slam" was also the code name of a highly classified modification project strictly concerned with atomic matters. The "Grand Slam" modifications would allow the Convair B-36 to carry atomic bombs, which the Air Force believed might weigh more than 40,000 pounds. Since the 10,000-pound M-121, when properly dropped, could inflict the damage of a 40,000-pound bomb, curiosity and rumors most likely explained the ensuing confusion. As a matter of fact, the "Grand Slam" designation was also loosely applied to other conventional bombs of the M-121 category.

Greg, you pretty much covered all bases on that reply, just have to add the following:

Please tell me more of this Grand Slam version that you speak of.  This is something that I find interesting.

I'm not Robert, but the Grand Slam was a type of nuclear weapon.  It was carried by the B-47.  It weighed 22,000 or 22,500 lbs if I recall correctly.

Kendra,

In my original comment to Robert I was referring to the carriage of two Grand Slam 22,000 pound high explosive deep penetration bombs by the flying wing bomber which Robert mentions in passing in the post that I quoted with my remarks.  The Grand Slam high explosive bombs were far too large to be carried internally by either flying wing bomber and were actually carried semi-recessed in the bomb bays with a fairing fitted to the front of the weapon to improve airflow during carriage and release.  The reference drawings that I have encountered on-line and elsewhere show the B-35 and possibly the B-49 carrying only the 12,000 pound Tall Boy weapons and not the 22,000 pound Grand Slam.  So Robert's remark elicited a response in order to get additional details on what he is planning to build. 

The was also another weapon project called Grand Slam which was an air launched ballistic missile designed to carry a nuclear warhead and penetration aids (decoys) for the reentry phase of the delivery profile.  The Grand Slam nuclear armed missile was was never produced.  It was also a UK project and not American. 

The physical dimensions of the B-47 bomb bay prevented it from carrying any of the larger nuclear devices or heavy bombs over 4000 pounds in size.  If you look at the size of the bomb bay on the B-29 (forward or rear, your choice) you will have an idea of how large the B-47 bomb bay was and the physical limitations it had on what could be carried internally. 

Sorry to have caused confusion with such an innocent question. 

Minor clarification, the "Tall Boy" was a 12,000 lb weapon, not 6,000.

Thanks, it was late, I was tired, that is my story and I am sticking with it.

*Attached images for additional details on the 4000 pound bomb and corrections made to original comment regarding the error on Tall Boy bomb weight. 

[kitnut617]

How did this one slip by ----

Jeffry,

I've only seen an 3-View of this arrangement on a website which was called 'Very Heavy Conventional Aerial Bombs'.  Was is because the hosting ISP has gone belly-up and now I can't find where the article has moved to, if it has moved anywhere.  But I think you have all what I've seen anyway, the two bombs being semi-recessed.  I was going to use this 3-View to convert my model but now I can't find it to do it.  Would you have an image ?

Kendra,

As has already been pointed out, I am referring to the British made and used, 22,000lb bomb.  My interest in it is because my Dad served in the squadron (617) that used this bomb operationally during WW.II.  I've since found out the the USAAF/USAF later did experimental tests with this bomb using a B-29, first carrying just one semi-recessed in the bomb bay, and later two (one under the inner wing on each side of the fuselage).  I had written to Boeing and was able to buy a couple of photos from their archive department showing this, and one of the photos showed what looked like a bigger bomb.  I found this out when I did a trial fit-up of a 1/72 Grand Slam bomb to a 1/72 B-29, so when I wrote back to Boeing enquiring about what was actually in the photo, I was told it was a T-12 which was sometimes referred to as a Grand Slam.  This T-12 was an exact scaled up Grand Slam and weighed in at around 44,000 lbs, but when they couldn't fit it into the B-29 bomb bay, they shortened the tail cone which makes it look a bit stumpy.

Greg,

A B-36 could carry two T-12s or four Grand Slams, this arrangement could also be carried by the proposed Vickers 'C' Type bomber (see cover of BSP-Bombers)

Here's a couple of pics of a 1/72 Tallboy (Edit: 12,000 lb), a 1/72 Grand Slam (22,000 lb) and a 1/72 T-12 (44,000 lb), the T-12 I've made from info off the internet and looking at photos of it.

[sagallacci]

Minor clairification, the "Tall Boy" was a 12,000 lb weapon, not 6,000.

As for B-35 Whiffs, I'll be doing one in an "operational" WWII configuration, OD over gray, framed pilot's canopy, gun turrets slewed and elevated, and other little bits.

Another Whiff, but one I'm hesitant to do, is cut up a B-49 to give it greater sweep, in order to improve stability a bit, and more importantly, get a better maximum speed out of it.

[kitnut617]

Minor clairification, the "Tall Boy" was a 12,000 lb weapon, not 6,000.

D'oh!! --- that's what I meant to say.    (edited my post)

[kitnut617]

 It was carried by the B-47.  It weighed 22,000 or 22,500 lbs if I recall correctly.
KJ Lesnick

I believe this size of bomb was initially carried by the B-36 and then the B-52.  I've read some reference to it as that what had to happen.  Judging by the size of the bomb bay in my B-47 model, the only larger bomb it could carry would be about 10,000 lbs, or Little Boy/Fatman size but more likely what the Thunderchief carried, maybe as many as four of them.  Something like the two on the rack or the one second in from the left in this photo.  These don't leave very much more space in the bay when installed so I can't see a 22,000 lb'er fitting in there, unless what the kit has as a bay is totally wrong.

The Mk.7 shape on the left definitely doesn't fit in the B-47 bomb bay.