Mix-and-Match; Eastern aircraft with Western weapons and vice-versa

[Jschmus]

Once I get around to building my reverse-engineered Soviet A-4 Skyhawk, I was planning on doing it with FAB series 550kg bombs on the centerline MER, MiG-21-style drop tanks on the inboard pylons and either AA-2 or UB rocket pods on the outers.

[dy031101]

Ah, speaking of helicopters mix-and-match, Mi-24 definitely has the potential- those upgraded by South Africa are quite radical, but there are possibilities for some modest future upgrades by Israel that could carry Spike NTD?.

And if Ka-50-2 Erdogan won the Turkey contract...... would it really have stuck with Russian-built weapons, or would Israeli weapons be a possibility as well?

[upnorth]

how about a B-52 with that big Russian made anti ship missile that you sometimes see semi recessed in the belly of TU-22 Backfires.

Could a BUFF haul two of them? One under each wing?

[B777LR]

how about a B-52 with that big Russian made anti ship missile that you sometimes see semi recessed in the belly of TU-22 Backfires.

Could a BUFF haul two of them? One under each wing?

Considering a Tu-22 could haul up to 3 (only for ferry flight though), i think the B-52 could carry up to 4.

[B777LR]

The IAI MiG-21 2000 can carry Python missiles (What a suprise!)

[dy031101]

Could the radome of EE Lightning accommodate the fire control radars available for upgraded MiG-21?

Actually, now I remembered a rumour that went around about Pakistan's fleet of F-16s before the war in Afganistan.

It was said that although technically Pakistan's F-16 are BVR combat-capable, no BVRAAM was delivered nor (after the beginning of American sanction) forthcoming, so Pakistan considered replacing their radars with counterparts made by the PRC and missiles with PL-11 to give the Falcons a real medium-range AA armament.

Everyone that offered an opinion in the past where I can hear/see it insisted that NO modification is possible without cooperation from GD/LM.  Yet nobody elaborated on that any further.

So question here- when it comes to replacing a radar, what part of the necessary knowledge and/or specifications would most definitely be available only through the original manufacturer?

Response would be greatly appreciated.







(I'd imagine that Pakistan could probably go for Grifo 2000 as well- the radar is, at least according to the ads, tailored to replace the original APG-66 radar in F-16A/Bs, and the Italians would probably be far more willing to integrate "Made in China" weapons with enough currency...... but whatever the whif case, seeing a F-16A with PL-11 or SD-10 AAMs would have been fun.  )

[Hobbes]

Well, it depends. On modern aircraft, I'd expect the radar and fire control systems to be integrated into the airplane's systems, so if you want to replace the radar, you need to adapt your new radar so it'll interface with the rest of the airplane properly.

In something like the EE Lightning, there's no integration. The only question there is, is enough space available for the new stuff. Given the pace of miniaturisation, I'd expect no problem. A big drawback of the Lightning is the limited space in the nosecone. A small radar dish limits the range of the radar (unless you really turn up the power, which means the enemy can find you from a long distance).

[dy031101]

Well, it depends. On modern aircraft, I'd expect the radar and fire control systems to be integrated into the airplane's systems, so if you want to replace the radar, you need to adapt your new radar so it'll interface with the rest of the airplane properly.

In something like the EE Lightning, there's no integration. The only question there is, is enough space available for the new stuff. Given the pace of miniaturisation, I'd expect no problem.

What would be the "cutoff" for this case- the aircraft that started the trend of all components integrated into the plane's systems?

[Hobbes]

I'd guess the cutoff is the use of interconnected digital computers. The F-16 was the first to use the MIL-STD-1553 data bus.

[dy031101]

So anything before F-16 could be considered an easy candidate for mixing-and-matching?

I suddenly remembered PolluxDeltaSeven's comments about the French Anemone radar...... seeing F-104's NASARR radar series as an example, perhaps a version with enhanced air-to-air capability is indeed possible.  But how large is it?  Would it fit into the nose radome of MiG-21?

And someone please give me some confirmation as to the type of radar Anemone is: a conventional one like APG-63 or an electronically scanned one like APG-63(V)2?

[Hobbes]

I've thought about it some more, and things may be more complex. AFAIK, the history of avionics is something like this:
1. Around WW2, electronics are introduced as separate gadgets which don't communicate with each other (radar, navigation devices, etc.)
2. More and more electronics appear, still separate (e.g. EE Lightning).
3. Ambitious projects to integrate these into a combat system (TSR2, F111 perhaps?)
4. Analog systems and digital computers are used in a mix.
5. Everything becomes digital, and standards like MILSTD 1553 makes connecting components easier.

1 and 2 are straightforward: as long as there's enough space, you can install anything.
3 and 4 are complicated: systems are designed for one specific aircraft. You'd have to be familiar with all of these to integrate new components.
5 is simple again: you only have to adhere to the standards.

[Geoff]

I did do an F-4E reverse engineered as an Su-19 with the missle and gun fit from a Mig-23. (based on a model on ARC).

[Joe C-P]

India is rumored to be seeking F/A-18s to serve on their new aircraft carrier, so one might see those aircraft equipped with a range of weapons from all of India's supplies.

[dy031101]

I've been thinking about the lessor-known aircraft designs that surfaced during and after the Cold War......

Since many of them don't really have weapon systems made exclusively for them, there would have been possibilities if they lasted as long as F-104S did......

HA-300 and HF-24 Marut would come to mind.  They were designed as an interceptor and a ground attack jet respectively- what I have in mind so far involves Kopyo-25 radar (that specific model because I'm not sure if the nose radome is even large enough for those used by upgraded MiG-21) for HA-300 and PrNK-23 Nav-attack system for HF-24.  Then throw in weapons compatible to these systems......

Other what-if designs such as HA-500 and PZL-230 have potential, too......

India is rumored to be seeking F/A-18s to serve on their new aircraft carrier, so one might see those aircraft equipped with a range of weapons from all of India's supplies.

In that scenario I can see Israeli-made missiles on Indian Super Hornets, so the necessity might not be there......

[dy031101]

Does the export of JAS-39 require US permission?

I know that RM12 is derived from F404, and SAAB is looking at F414 to power further JAS-39 development......

Inspired by glanini's Serbian JAS-39 profile, perhaps a JAS-39 equipped with "Epaulette" miniature radars and armed with R-73 as well as R-77 would be a more believable post-Cold War what-if?