BAE Nimrod

[Caveman]

Reheat on the outer engines to reduce time to altitude and allow for a dash to get into fire position?

[Mossie]

As well as a new airborne intercept radar, could make for an interesting new nose, something similar to the Nimrod AEW, but smaller?

Basic back story:  Canberra P.12 enters service, proves to be a success.  A competition ensues to choose a successor, the Government eventually get around to it in the seventies (allows for the AEW to be factored in).  VC-10, BAC 1-11 & Nimrod versions are proposed, the VC-10 is rejected as being too large & the Nimrod wins over the 1-11 as it already has the military mods, commonality with the MR & AEW airframes making it cheaper.

[MAD]

Thanks for your thoughts and feedback
Keep it coming!!

Yep, there was a VC-10 proposal, using an airborne version of the Sea Dart SAM.

Any chance you could PM me with any info on this proposal?


M.A.D

[McColm]

The Nimrod can carry iron bombs but not laser guided as the weapons bay isn't long enough. A bomb sight was made from three pieces of perspex to be used in the Falklands War. Similar to the sight for the Dam-Buster Lancasters.
The weapon bay was based on the Shackleton and weapons used by NATO during the 1970s.

A proposal for high and hot countries was to include a fifth engine in the tail section.

[Mossie]

How do you mean?  I'm not sure about the newer Paveway IV, but Paveway II & III are shorter than the Harpoon that the Nimrod carries.

[McColm]

How do you mean?  I'm not sure about the newer Paveway IV, but Paveway II & III are shorter than the Harpoon that the Nimrod carries.

During the Falklands conflict the engineers at Boscombe Down tried to equip the Nimrod with various weapons to turn it into a bomber. They ran into difficulties with the laser guided bombs.
The iron bombs were tested on ranges off the coast of Scotland with a ninety percent hit rate at meduim and low levels, however these were not used. The Nimrods provided SAR cover for the Vulcan missions who usualy missed there targets and ASW to locate the Argi's submarines.

[norseman]

It wasn't a length problem, it was a depth problem. The same issue has arisen when looking at Storm Shadow carriage on the MR4, the bomb bay is easily long enough but not deep enough and would need bulged for Storm Shadow or other wider wing span weapons like some of the LGB's.

[Mossie]

Carry them under wing or semi-recess them?

[norseman]

Depending on budget carrying them under the wings is the plan as I understand it, 2 under each wing though seemingly the NSM (and presumably its direct brother the JSM) can be accommodated easily as far as depth goes (probably take 2 rows of 4 easily enough). Doubt there will be any budget for looking at the NSM family though which is a pity as it's a natural successor to the Harpoon with great secondary land attack capability.

I would have like to have seen a Nimrod with 4 of the late 60's Speys that were ground tested to 17,500lb+ dry (similar project in the States with the TF41 for an uprated A7). Seemingly the inlet rework required wasn't too major and full efficiency and maintenance were improved but as per always in these matters it wasn't a priority in the budget and fell by the wayside (along with the 27,000lb+ reheat version).

[McColm]

Couldn't you change the engines to the F-3 Tornado MK104 without the reheat? or the same ones used by the B-2?

[norseman]

I was looking at a 70's perspective engine wise at what was available and doable without major redesign. From a more modern perspective the F3's Turbo Unions are pretty weedy in comparison even compared to the standard Nimrod MR2 Speys though a lot lighter. The F118's (approx 17,300lb) from the B2 would in theory be doable with a bit of jiggering around though wouldn't have improved on the uprated dry Speys available in the late 60's/early 70's though they might be more economical but following this through there were progressive designs taking the dry military Speys way past 18,000lb that were never funded.

The upcoming MR4's have the 15,500lb RR BR710's though in theory the very slightly larger BR725's could fit giving 17,000lb+ but no real advantage over what was available the Spey options 40 years before other than probably fuel economy and maintenance (which are major boons). A lot of work and effort was put into developing the Spey family (though not taken up) and if in theory similar effort was put into developing the BR series fans for other than commercial perspectives then I am sure a military optimised BR7xx giving over 20,000lb dry and fitting in the MR4 engine housings would be doable with a degree of compromise on the fuel economy.

[Mossie]

I don't suppose there's a Nimrod AEW in 1:144? Otherwise I might have to pick up an Airfix Nimrod sometime soon...

Welsh Models do a vacform Nimrod in 1/144, but I don't know of an AEW kit or conversion in that scale.
http://www.hannants.co.uk/search/?FULL=WHPJW32

Just going through the old posts on this thread, Anigrand have now released a 1/144 Nimrod AEW.3, although it'll cost you around £65/80 Euros.  Includes a Hawker P.1121, Cierva Air Horse & Faiery Gannet AEW.
http://www.anigrand.com/AA4050_Nimrod-AEW3.htm

[Mossie]

Slightly off topic, but I found this on the Spyflight website:

http://www.spyflight.co.uk/Nim%20aew.htm

Despite all the problems with the Nimrod AEW 3, GEC Marconi continued development of the radar system, now named ARGUS, and the Chinese expressed an interest in mounting it on an Il-76 Candid. However, it appears the Chinese saw sense, as they eventually tried to purchase the Phalcon phased array AEW system from Israel, until this was blocked by the USA.

A modified Trumpy 1/144 Il-76 would be good, or if someone has the balls & a lottery win to mount the Cammet Nimrod AEW.3 conversion onto an AModel 1/72 kit.

[McColm]

Hi,
There are pages of reference to the BAe Nimrod. Each whiff member has built either the MK2 or R1 as a faithfull replica of the real thing. Others contemplate a bomber version or AEW.
Now that the price of the Airfix model has been in most cases halved, or less depending on where you shop.
Taking a different approach I've come up with the following:
1) a stretched version-adding the front section from another kit and making the cut just clear of the cockpit up to the line of the wing.
a) a tanker version using-the Boeing 707 tanker conversion set.
b) a transport version with a cargo door.
c) passenger liner-extra windows, luggage in weapons bay.
d) V.I.P. transport in the Royal Fight colours.

2) The military approach using the AEW conversion set.
e) Rotordome, i.e. Hawkeye
f) phalcon
g) RC-135V/W
h) JSTARS
i)SLAR above the fuselage on a stand
j)Waterbomber
k)Nightingale

3 The shortened version would be the largest bizjet.

[McColm]

BAe Nimrod MK4