BAE Nimrod

[Mossie]

Yeah, no need for Sidewinders in Afghanistan, but pleny of shoulder launched SAM's.  Makes sense to replace them, the Nimrod is a big, tempting target.

[Aircav]

A lot more RPG's that SAM's, that's whats accounting for the most of the aircraft loss's

[GTX]

an interesting mission for a maritime surveillance aircraft. I'm reminded of the P-2 Neptunes that ended up being used along the Ho Chi Minh Trail in Laos with the IGLOO WHITE systems.

Both the RAAF and USN have had their P-3s operating over Iraq and Afghanistan for many years now.  In fact, it has become one of the key roles of these aircraft.  Given their ability to carry many sensors/comms suites, good sized crews and have long endurance, they have proved invaluable.

As to weapons, they could all carry effective Air-to-Ground weapons (e.g. guided bombs, Mavericks) if need be.  I've also wondered what the effect of a sonobouy tube launched shell would be - when in the RAAF we were always warned a sonobouy could have an effect similar to a 5" shell coming out...

Regards,

Greg

[Shasper]

Especially if that "shell" is one of those IR/Laser guided jobs

[zebedee]

I'm confused   

If you have a dish, what's the rear bit for ?

I believe the plan with the Grumman conversion was to reuse the airframes from the original AEW3 set of conversions.  While removing the nose radome required no major changes to the structure of the airframe (essentially taking it back to that of a comet), the tail of the AEW3 was all new from the rear pressure bulkhead back, so removing it would entail building a completely new tail structure, which at that stage of the programme was probably not cost efficient... 

The former weapons bay would have been retained, as in the AEW these held additional fuels tanks that served a secondary purpose as heat sinks for all the electronics... including the GEC 4080M computer used only had 1mb (yes mb) of memory...! although to be fair you could it expand it to 2.4 mb through the data bus... but i digress...



Interestingly, according to Roy Boots 'From Spitfire to Eurofighter'  HSA proposed a similar 'hawkrod' in the 60's before settling on a fore-aft solution to be mounted on Andover C1's retrofitted with jets (im not making this up honest...).  After it was discovered that the Jet Andover didn't fit the bill (mainly due to the unavailability of a suitable engine) it was decide to fit the radar to the Nimrod and the rest is er... history...

Zeb

[GTX]

Interestingly, according to Roy Boots 'From Spitfire to Eurofighter'  HSA proposed a similar 'hawkrod' in the 60's before settling on a fore-aft solution to be mounted on Andover C1's retrofitted with jets (im not making this up honest...).  After it was discovered that the Jet Andover didn't fit the bill (mainly due to the unavailability of a suitable engine) it was decide to fit the radar to the Nimrod and the rest is er... history...

Zeb

Oh, we believe you:





Regards,

Greg

[kitnut617]

I believe the plan with the Grumman conversion was to reuse the airframes from the original AEW3 set of conversions.  While removing the nose radome required no major changes to the structure of the airframe (essentially taking it back to that of a comet), the tail of the AEW3 was all new from the rear pressure bulkhead back, so removing it would entail building a completely new tail structure, which at that stage of the programme was probably not cost efficient... 

Zeb

That would explain it then    So did the rear fairing include a radar dish too?

[zebedee]

Probably a version of the Blue Circle radar installed in the Tornado F2... ie concrete...

Oh, we believe you:

Oh the bottom one i've not seen...

Im sure i've said it before but that is one fuggly bird...

Zeb

[kitnut617]

Oh, we believe you:



Regards,

Greg

One of my projects I'm still thinking about, is making an AEW Vickers Vanguard in 1/72, I've got three or four ways to do it.  Either using one or other type of radome from a Canadair Argus, a radome from an EP-3 or the dish from the Hawkeye.  Not sure which way I want to go with it but it would be Canadian, the AH being the RCAF used some redundant Trans Canada Air Lines (former Air Canada) Vanguards.  Of course I could also use a Shackleton radome or one from an Avenger or even more wilder, an EC-121 radomes considering I have one or more of any of these in the stash.

[PR19_Kit]

One of my projects I'm still thinking about, is making an AEW Vickers Vanguard in 1/72.....

Didn't JayBee do one of those recently? Bells are ringing.....

[kitnut617]

One of my projects I'm still thinking about, is making an AEW Vickers Vanguard in 1/72.....

Didn't JayBee do one of those recently? Bells are ringing.....

Maybe Kit, but not in 1/72 I think

[MAD]

By chance does anyone know the dimensions of the Nimrod`s weapons bay?
How many Aim-54 Phoenix  long-range AAM`s do you think the Nimrod`s weapons bay accommodate?

I have just been looking at AeroplaneDriver`s BAe Nimrod B.5 'What If' bomber forum, and Falcon`s excellent 'What If' Strategic Bomber Nimrod model  
http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,19406.0/highlight,nimrod.html

This great work got me thinking!
If you can utilize the versatile Nimrod for this role, then what else could it be used for?
One of my most long sort after 'factual' programs I have been trying to track down for years is that of the USAF`s 'Project AERIES'.
Project AERIES was a proposed and studied 1957 project for the use of a modified Boeing C-135A acting as a self contained weapons platform, equipped with a powerful air-search radar, its own airborne command centre and armed with no less than Twenty Four AAM-N-10 Eagle Long-range AAM`s.
This aircraft would loiter endlessly patrolling the aerospace of the United States (limited only by its crews endurance and stamina) intercepting any threatening Soviet strategic bomber that approached the continent. (I would love and appreciate any information, drawings and art work of this project if anyone has anything on it!!!!!)
Add to this the only thing that I know came close to this was a Lockheed proposal to a US Navy requirement of Land-Based Fleet Air Defence Aircraft. Lockheed's submission was the CL-520, which was based on modified P-3 Orion. Like Project 'AERIE' it had its own AEW like air-search radom, and its own powerful fire-control radar and armed with around 10-12 AAM-N-10 Eagle LRAAM`s (see attached 3-view drawing posted).

NOW how about we take the likes of the unfortunately cancelled Nimrod AEW airframe and its once promising Marconi radar system and the prominent bulbous radom`s which houses it (exemplified by Thorvic`s beautiful Nimrod AEW model. See attachment) and like the Project AERIES and CL-520, turn the Nimrod into the world`s largest, longest reaching, longest loitering, and the deadliest Aim-54 Phoenix AAM toting and packing  Air Defence Aircraft the world has ever seen!
Could you imagine what stand-off intercepting power this platform could offer both the RAF and RN.  Combining its it`s range, endurance and staying power (in loitering time and weapons), would put any Tornado F.2 to shame. Although it would have air refueling capability, unlike the Tornado F.2, it will not need it for its standard patrol!
Any Soviet / Russian Tu-16 'Badger' and Tu-22M  'Backfire' would be in for one hell of a surprise, from the Nimrod Interceptors extended detecting radar power, and the long-range mass barrage of Phoenix AAM`s it would send their way long out to sea, and long before they could launch their powefull and feared supersonic Raduga Kh-22 (AS-4 'Kitchen') and Raduga KSR-5 (AS-6 'Kingfish') cruise missiles at NATO shipping.
Of course this means somewhere and somehow a Hughes AWG-9 radar will need to be incorporated to support the Aim-54`s!

What do you think?
Can anyone do a profile on this ultimate Interceptor?
Any ideas for a backstory?

M.A.D

[GTX]

Interesting...

Regards,

Greg

[Mossie]

Why not???  EE proposed the P.12, an interceptor variant of the Canberra.  It was actually considered to be more capable then contemporary fighters due to the fact it could carry Red Dean.

A Nimrod could carry a large load of long range missiles, it would essentially be an airborne SAM post (with appropriate changes to acronyms! )  Not intended to engage an enemy, just pour lots of fiery death their way well outside the range of sunshine bombs.  I vaguely remember a VC-10 project along these lines, I know there were bomber & cruise missile launchers proposed.

[Hobbes]

Yep, there was a VC-10 proposal, using an airborne version of the Sea Dart SAM. The same could be used for the Nimrod.

A Nimrod F.4 would be very cool. Sea Darts in the bomb bay, and SRAAM, Sidewinder or ASRAAM under the wings, with a couple of ECM pods. Later on, Sky Flash added as well. Painted in EDSG over white for service over the North Atlantic.