Nimrod MRA.4 a future Whif?

[SimonR]

There's an interesting review of the MRA.4 in this month's AFM. It has all the appearances of a project that should have been strangled at birth but now nobody knows what to do with it. It's now been so long in development that some of it's capabilities are actually a step back from the MR.2 it is meant to replace. I assume and hope it will be joining the AEW.3, TSR.2, etc. in the tax payer funded fiasco graveyard when there is a change of government in the UK. By the time this happens the RAF probably won't be able to afford P-8s, happily and fortuitously there will, at that time, be an abdundance of ex-USN P-3s available...

[GTX]

ortuitously there will, at that time, be an abdundance of ex-USN P-3s available...

Except that their fatigue lives will be very high thus requiring a complete rebuild to be useful.

Regards,

Greg

[XV107]

Also, following the loss of XV230, I doubt that it would be politically viable for any British government to go out and purchase an aeroplane of similar vintage - the press regard the XV230 case as being a result of the aircraft being old, and even if the RAF managed to get some of the last P-3s built, the press would say that the government was equipping the RAF with an older, slower, less capable design and that this was a disgrace...

If the MRA4 goes, about the only realistic option would be the P-8 (although with this government, probably procured on a PFI deal, shared with EasyJet and operating out of that great maritime hub Luton...)

[Captain Canada]

Let's not get holier than thou about taxpayer money being wasted. 

No doubt. The CDN MPA is going thru the same ordeal. Well, kinda...first we buy Arcturus a/c to supplement the Aurora. Why ? An excuse to get rid of capable a/c that cost money ! Then we cut the numbers, disband a squadron.....start an upgrade program. But wait ! We're gonna buy a new MPA, so we don't need to upgrade ! Stop work on all upgrades ! No, maybe we should upgrade, but only 10 a/c. At least we didn't go down the garden path with the Nimrod, but we're getting there !

[SimonR]

If the MRA4 goes, about the only realistic option would be the P-8 (although with this government, probably procured on a PFI deal, shared with EasyJet and operating out of that great maritime hub Luton...)

At least with EasyJet we might see some money back if we started charging the fat boys in the kipper fleet for their pie consumption.

[Mike Wren]

(although with this government, probably procured on a PFI deal, shared with EasyJet and operating out of that great maritime hub Luton...)

hmmm... a Hemp 737 with countershaded, low viz Easyjet titles down the fuselage & a Harpoon or 2 under the wings... 

[Howard of Effingham]

(although with this government, probably procured on a PFI deal, shared with EasyJet and operating out of that great maritime hub Luton...)

hmmm... a Hemp 737 with countershaded, low viz Easyjet titles down the fuselage & a Harpoon or 2 under the wings... 

why do i feel that this is giving mike ideas for a model? 

though i'll admit that nils' idea about a PC-130J sounds interesting......

trevor

[mrdj]

No doubt. The CDN MPA is going thru the same ordeal. Well, kinda...first we buy Arcturus a/c to supplement the Aurora. Why ? An excuse to get rid of capable a/c that cost money ! Then we cut the numbers, disband a squadron.....start an upgrade program. But wait ! We're gonna buy a new MPA, so we don't need to upgrade ! Stop work on all upgrades ! No, maybe we should upgrade, but only 10 a/c. At least we didn't go down the garden path with the Nimrod, but we're getting there !

The Canadian MPA is somewhat different. The initial plan was for 16 a/c, plus 2 development a/c (the high time CP-140s) That depleted the full stock of 18. Unfortunately, the a/c had airframe issues that arose during the latest upgrade phase. Only 10 airframes will continue the upgrade program. The whole fleet was 3/4 through the program.

The CP-140 is more of a trainer version, with limited systems. They can perform more limited roles than the CP-140s. IIRC, they are being retired by simulators.

Back on the Nimrod topic, new build Nimrods are being kicked around as a replacement for the fleet (along with several other types). Unlikely, but a cool idea.

Are there any MRA.4 conversion kits out yet?

[Martin H]

Are there any MRA.4 conversion kits out yet?

Not yet

[jcf]

So now that this has come to pass perhaps it's time to look back at what may have been a better course to follow once the
the severity of the MRA.4's problems became so apparent so many years ago.

To whit, perhaps the monies would have been better expended on developing a British built version of the previously mentioned A319/320 family?
http://www.casr.ca/bg-cp140-replacement-a320.htm



I realize it is a limited market and competition with the P-8 would be fierce, but perhaps it would have kept our Weaver gainfully employed.

... of course, there is always upnorth's Global Hawk notion, perhaps in overall hemp with a sharkmouth? 

[kitnut617]

Thing is Jon, would they have gone with an under fuselage pannier like they stuck on the Comet ?

But now I've got a reason to go get one of these ---- 

http://www.welshmodels.co.uk/MJA72-5.html

[jcf]

Thing is Jon, would they have gone with an under fuselage pannier like they stuck on the Comet ?

[Weaver]

The problem with all proposals to use modern airliners is that the endless attention to seat-mile efficiency means that they don't have the reserve airframe strength to put up with extended low-level use like the older designs with bigger safety margins do. The Poseidon is partly a case in point, since it's based on the 737 airframe which goes back quite a way. However, it's concept of operations is also different, and they're not envisaging it spending as much time at low level as a traditional MPA. Interestingly, in line with this philosophy, they've deleted any MAD capability from it, since MAD can only be used at low level.

[Hobbes]

Thing is Jon, would they have gone with an under fuselage pannier like they stuck on the Comet ?

But now I've got a reason to go get one of these ---- 

http://www.welshmodels.co.uk/MJA72-5.html

Buying a £100 kit for this? Brave man!

I'd just butcher a Revell A320 instead.

[GTX]

However, it's concept of operations is also different, and they're not envisaging it spending as much time at low level as a traditional MPA. Interestingly, in line with this philosophy, they've deleted any MAD capability from it, since MAD can only be used at low level.

Spot on - drop torps etc from 20000ft!!!  Re the MAD, I understand the Indian Navy P-8Is will still have it.

Regards,

Greg