BAE Hawk and T-45 Goshawk

[Nick]

Been thinking about a thread on rec.aviation.military ng (pretty much the only military aviation thread there ) about post WW2 combat aircraft that never saw combat. Some interesting results have popped up as well as various mistakes from other people, like thinking the Vulcan, Javelin and Hawk have never seen combat.

This got me thinking (dodgy but it has to be done ). The BAe Hawk has been used for counter-insurgency attacks by African nations.
What-if the RAF considered using the Hawk trainer not just as an Air Defence version, but also in a Ground Attack role supporting army operations like the Harrier? Use the T-45 Goshawk from RN carriers for helping the Marines?
Nice camo schemes to match, of course.

The new 1/48 Hawk is £10 in a local shop but I don't plan on building one.

Nick  B)  

[Aircav]

I've been thinking of doing some T-45s when I get everything else out of the way.
A T-45 RM version with the rear cockpit filled in (I know Rad had the same idea) in green and grey camo armed with rockets and bombs for ground attack.
A two seat T-45 version for the RN in gloss black with a union jack tail and spine (to go with the Skyhawk I'm planning) armed with SeaEagle and drop tanks.
Well thats where I've got so far..............

All the best
Steve

[Mike Wren]

what about an RAF Sqn of aggressor Hawks in pseudo-Soviet camo schemes with big red stars? They could carry those ECM pods on the centreline which those bizjets (Falcons?) use for RN training?

Or maybe the USN/USMC could do the same with some T-45s?

must get round to doing an RAF Op Granby Forward Air Control Hawk in desert pink loaded with chaff & ECM pods & smoke marker rockets

[nev]

Ooh, I like your FAC idea Mike.

How about a WW3 hawk?  The plan was to use them as point interceptors in time of war, so maybe a grey one with a couple of Backfire kill markings?

Or if things got really desperate in Europe, a grey/green one loaded with ordnance for CAS.

[Geoff_B]

must get round to doing an RAF Op Granby Forward Air Control Hawk in desert pink loaded with chaff & ECM pods & smoke marker rockets

Hi Mike

If its FAC then how about the wrap arround scheme used on the Helos the sand and stone colours, might be more appropriate somehow. Maybe add a pair of SNEB pods or the Gun pod to provide its own firepower if needed, obviously the Jags would do most of the striking - on that point as an Alternative how about BAe loaning the Hawk 100 to the RAF, desert pink, drop tanks and ecm/chaff with a Talid on the centre line providing target marking for laser guided bombs from the Jags.

Cheers

GeoffB B)  

[Radish]

Hawks look good in camo.
Why not a fully loaded 100 series(modified as I've suggested before) into a 300 series single-seater?
Lots of FAC possibilities as well as cheapo fighter-bombers of the RAux AF??
Desert scheme?
How about that trialled Desert scheme of Gulf Pink on the plan-form upper surfaces with grey on the rest?
Or, all over grey?
Or a wrap around lizard colour schme?
The Goshawk is to be "done" by Model Alliance (at a price).
quite fancy a camo job, but the idea of an aggressor scheme also appeals, especially with nice markings.
Model Alliancedecal sheet should be out at the Nats with 100Sqn (Skull & crossbones!!!!) and 74Sqn tiger on.
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

[Nick]

Or if things got really desperate in Europe, a grey/green one loaded with ordnance for CAS.

That's it!! That's what I had in mind! All I could imagine was a camo'd Hawk, fully bombed up, flying in low over a group of WarPac troops and letting loose... Bit like all those Jags and Harriers were expected to do.

Let's see, following the surprise shove by Soviet Army's which forced NATO troops all the way back as far aas the French border and depleted friendly air forces drastically, the RAF grabs a squadron of trainers, paints them in a spiffy Euro green camo and sends on their way to push the Soviets back. All this done as the US Reforger exercise gets up to speed.

Nick B)  

[Joe C-P]

Maybe a Brazilian Hawk, as replacements for their A-4s on the Minas Gerais.

Indian Hawks to fly off the ex-Gorshkov.

Philippine Hawks in a light CAS or maritime patrol role.

[Davey B]

LOVE the FAC Hawk idea!      

Thought of doing an RNZAF Hawk 100 for that. All-over dark green (a la A-4K), but with peacetime training hi-viz bands around fuselage and wings.

Hmm, methinks that someone needs to read the history of the Falklands War if they think the Vulcan never flew a combat mission  

[elmayerle]

Regarding ideas for Hawk variants, I keept thinking of Hawk100/T-45 and Hawk200/T-45 hybrids operating off some of the smaller, older carriers.

The thought also occured to me of RAuxAF Hawk200's utlizing Red Top AAM's remaining after the Lightning stood down.

Going back farher in time, I've always wondered if the seeker of the Fairey Fireflash could have been mated to the airframe of the Firestreak to produce a missile equivalent to at least the Sparrow I at a similar time.

Thoughtfully,
Evan Mayerle

[Geoff_B]

Erm Ben  Airfix don't do the 200, its the 100 they do and that in 1/48 (Although Neomega now do a Hawk 200 conversion based on this kit). Thats why its £9.99.


As to the Matchbox 1/72 Hawk 200 i think its still produced for the Chinese Market in Hong Kong and can still be found ebay. I just did a search worldwide on there and found three but one of those was US only and in Texas (Ben interested ?)

Cheers

Geoff B B)

[ysi_maniac]

Is Hawk 200 AMRAAM compatible, theoretically at least?

[AeroplaneDriver]

Yes.  The APG-66H radar in the Hawk is a version of the F-16's radar, and is compatible with AMRAAM.  

[simmie]

The Blue Vixen radar used on the Sea Harrier F/A 2 would also fill out the nose quite nicely.

[Joe C-P]

This is the aircraft I always forget when discussing planes for modern light carriers. Hawks and/or Goshawks would be acceptable in an environment where the opposition doesn't have modern fighters or lots of SAM.

The USN's Goshawks can be armed, but they don't fly them that way. It might be a good way to fill out flight decks as the F-35 gets later and later.

Brasil could consider buying armed Goshawks to replace their A-4s.

JoeP