BAE Hawk and T-45 Goshawk

[PolluxDeltaSeven]

As I couldn't sleep tonight, I started to heavily modified a 1/72 Airfix Hawk T.1 into a kind of "Hawk 300" combat and training aircraft.

The most visible modification is the long nose of the bird. The main was to have both a FLIR and a radar into a twin-seater variant for all weather multipurpose operations (including BVR ability).
As the nose is still thinner than the Hawk 200's one, the radar will probably be lighter APG-67 (later replaced by an AESA APG-67)

The back seat could be replace in few hours by an additional internal fuel tank. I also think that I will had an internal 20mm gun for it (but maybe in this case I'll have to definitively replace the back seat by fuel and ammos, what do you think?)


Less visible on the model until you have a unmodified Hawk 100 next to it to compare, but probably more important for a "real" airplane: the shape of the fuselage is largely modified with putty and styrene, so the plane is larger and heavier than a conventional Hawk, probably with more internal fuel too. The intakes will be probably enlarged too.

That's here I need you (with the back seat question too ):
What kind of engine could fit into a enlarged Hawk?

I used a reduce Super Etendard exhaust in the model, but I imagine an engine far smaller and more modern than the ATAR. Maybe something in the 3500 or 4000kg of thrust?
I initially imagined a F124 derived. An enlarged derivative of the engine, with lower fuel consumption. But I just don't know a single thing about how an engine works!!

I'm open to every idea, as I'm still not sure about the backstory! It could be a late 70's, a 80's, or even a 2010's solution, whatever! 

[Shasper]

The original Hawk 200 had dual 30mm internal, so a single 20mm breech-type gun shouldnt be an issue.

Shas

[PolluxDeltaSeven]

Yes, but the twin 25mm of the Hawk 200 were in a pure single seater, while my Hawk 300 is based on the twin-seater (I had no Hawk 200 kit)

But eventualy, I think I will transform it into a pure single seater, like the Japanese F-1 derived from the T-2: the back seat will be replace by fuel, electronic and ammunitions for the gun.

Hey! What about a Japanese derivative of the plane? After all the transformation they made to the Jaguar design (T-2 and F-1) and the F-16 (F-2), why not a heavily modified Hawk? What if their T-4 was based on the Hawk-like design instead of the Alpha Jet like?
Someone did it for the JASDF group build, right?

[PolluxDeltaSeven]

Hello eveybody.
I continued to work on my "Hawk 300" project. I will soon post some pictures on the appropriate forum (Workbench), but for the moment I stay in this forum because some thought about the missions/customers/weapons could be interesting for everyone.

The kit will be far more modified that what I initially thought, but it still looks like a Hawk (like a Mirage 2000 looks like a Mirage III). It will have larger wings, larger engine (maybe a lighter F404 with no afterburner, but not sure for the moment), larger fuselage, new larger air intakes (from a Gripen kit) etc...



But the interesting things could work for standard Hawks.
For the country, as I said, I keep the USAF idea in mind, and think about Brazilian Navy, USMC, US Navy or RAF. So I'm still not sure if it will be navalised or not.
For the missions, I thought about old and new ones:
-COIN, CAS and anti-tank/vehicules (USAF or RAF as a A-10 and AH-64 complement, after Afghanistan and Irak learnings)
-Naval interception and strike for light carriers (for the Brazilian Navy, as a A-4 replacement)
-Anti-helicopter, as an escort for CAS/COIN aircraft
etc...

Those configurations are just excuses for new weapons payload!
For the CAS/COIN/anti-tank missions, I imagined a high-tech grenade launcher with a large variety of ammunitions (details in the workbench thread as soon as possible), but also laser guided rockets and an adaptation of the European BONUS ammunition (that was planed for French UCAVs)
For the naval plane, typical payload could include AMRAAM and Sidewinder, of course, but also AGM-65, GBU and Penguin anti-ship missiles.
For the anti-helicopter role, but also as a self-defense for the CAS/COIN, a new enlarged Stinger missile (Stinger XR for eXtended Range) could be use to deal with helicopters, UAVs, planes at low levels but also, why not, as a light anti-radar missiles using a GPS/INS system (French missile ASSM already do this: the ECM suite of the plane designed the radar and the missile is launch on the coordinates)


What do you think about that?
I think the kit will probably be in anti-helicopter configuration, as it sounds the coolest for me!

[Aircav]

Some cool video of the BONUS Artillery Launched Precision Guided Munitions system 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xdRXVizij4

[gofy]

What about Blue Vixen (APG-65 or later for USAF) radar in the Hawk 100?  Maybe a F-5 replacement.

[Old Paul]

Does anyone have some definitive comparison figure for the Adour and EJ200? As far as I can make out from various sources (and subject to fairly suspect imperial/metric conversions ):

Diameter; Adour - 0.570m; EJ200 - 0.737m.

Length: Adour - 2.9m (but is this with afterburner?); EJ200 4.0m with afterburner (but how long without? About 3.0m?)

Weight: Adour - 809kg; EJ200 - 989kg without afterburner.

Thrust (dry): Adour - 6500lbf; EJ200 - 13500lbf.

SFC: Adour - 23g/kNs (but converted manually! ): EJ200 - 21-23g/kNs.

Can anyone imrpove on these figures? And how practical would a stretch be to accomodate the EJ200? Maybe with additional fuel replacing the rear seat, as per the Aero L-159?

http://media.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_L-159_Top_Armed_lg.jpg

[Mossie]

Been looking for photo proof of Red Arrows Hawks carrying weapons for ages.  I knew I'd seen it somewhere years ago.  I've tried a web search before to no avail, tried it now & a few came up:

[PR19_Kit]

When Red 1 calls 'Smoke on, GO!' I hope the guys astern press the right button.............

[PR19_Kit]

Which is the best 1/72 scale Hawk kit, the older Airfix one or the newer, but cheaper, Revell/Italeri one?

And please include the new Airfix 100 version as well.

[deathjester]

Does anyone have some definitive comparison figure for the Adour and EJ200? As far as I can make out from various sources (and subject to fairly suspect imperial/metric conversions ):

Diameter; Adour - 0.570m; EJ200 - 0.737m.

Length: Adour - 2.9m (but is this with afterburner?); EJ200 4.0m with afterburner (but how long without? About 3.0m?)

Weight: Adour - 809kg; EJ200 - 989kg without afterburner.

Thrust (dry): Adour - 6500lbf; EJ200 - 13500lbf.

SFC: Adour - 23g/kNs (but converted manually! ): EJ200 - 21-23g/kNs.

Can anyone imrpove on these figures? And how practical would a stretch be to accomodate the EJ200? Maybe with additional fuel replacing the rear seat, as per the Aero L-159?

http://media.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_L-159_Top_Armed_lg.jpg

How about the afterburning Adour from the Jaguar?  That's what I put in my Seahawk II...

[CSMO]

Reference an earlier post in this thread. Kinetic is producing a 1/48 T-45 Goshawk. I read a couple of threads on Hyperscale, and I have seen the ads for one. Adios, Larry.

[Slerski]

Does anyone have some definitive comparison figure for the Adour and EJ200? As far as I can make out from various sources (and subject to fairly suspect imperial/metric conversions ):

Diameter; Adour - 0.570m; EJ200 - 0.737m.

Length: Adour - 2.9m (but is this with afterburner?); EJ200 4.0m with afterburner (but how long without? About 3.0m?)

Weight: Adour - 809kg; EJ200 - 989kg without afterburner.

Thrust (dry): Adour - 6500lbf; EJ200 - 13500lbf.

SFC: Adour - 23g/kNs (but converted manually! ): EJ200 - 21-23g/kNs.

Can anyone imrpove on these figures? And how practical would a stretch be to accomodate the EJ200? Maybe with additional fuel replacing the rear seat, as per the Aero L-159?

http://media.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_L-159_Top_Armed_lg.jpg

How about the afterburning Adour from the Jaguar?  That's what I put in my Seahawk II...

Don't know if I will answer to the question but...

"Dry" Adour (for Hawk for example) : length 1,96 m / diameter 0,58 m / weight 589 kg / max thrust 27 kN (dry)
"Afterburning" Adour (for Jaguar) : length 2,9 m / diameter 0,59 m / weight 809 kg / max thrust 37,4 kN (afterburning)

[AS.12]

Quick note re: Hawk 200 internal cannons.  Came across a couple of threads when researching something else, which state that whilst there were cut-outs made in the fuselage frames for a single 25mm ADEN there was no serious attempt to fit it or to mitigate the noise & shock on the neighbouring, tightly-packed avionics.

Here's one on pprune: http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/248734-uk-signs-hawk-128-contract.html#post3814651

Unfortunately seems to have been real-life whiffery from the Brough boys.

Of course the 25mm died soon after and all attention reverted to the 30mm pod.

[rickshaw]

Very interesting history of the development of the BAE Hawk - http://aerosociety.com/Assets/Docs/Publications/The%20Journal%20of%20Aeronautical%20History/2013-01_HawkStory-Fraser-Mitchell.pdf

Check out the armament options on page 46...