Heinkel He 111 and derivatives

[GTX]

Swept wing jet He-111 concept inspired by Mark's request here.



Regards,

Greg

[ChernayaAkula]

Now add some more engines!  Maybe over/under as in the EE Lightning? 

[dy031101]

MarkH262's question prompted me to ask about the extent of modification of converting the He-111 to delta-wings......

Couldn't help to think tailless...... someone please stop me if it's not a good idea......

[jcf]

MarkH262's question prompted me to ask about the extent of modification of converting the He-111 to delta-wings......

Couldn't help to think tailless...... someone please stop me if it's not a good idea......

A delta, or tailless ala the Westland Pterodactyls or the Gotha 147, for a fantasy Luft38 actually makes more sense than adding jet engines and a high-speed swept wing to an early/mid-thirties design like the He 111.


Pterodactyl I


Gotha 147

[GTX]

There you go being practical again .

Here's some things from the other end of the logic scale:









Ok, my head is spinning now .

Regards,

Greg

[Maverick]

Looking good Greg.  The fuse of the He-111 looks a natural to the conversion and I'm sure any Luft 46 JMN (if there is such a thing) would be in a head spin over the result.

Regards,

Mav

[GTX]

Another:



Regards,

Greg

[GTX]

How about a turboprop variant:



Regards,

Greg

[Sauragnmon]

Greg, they look bloody insane, especially the Heinkevulcan!  I'd be too tempted to mount the jets so she's got root intakes to increase the Vulcanesque appearance.

As a side note, should we up your dosage?

[sequoiaranger]

How about the massive single-engine of the He-119 applied to the He-111? I am currently working on a bomber version of a He-119 and noticed that the overall size (at least the fuselage) is only a tad smaller.  The overall horsepower would have been about the same. Although the "bomb-bay" might have been used up by the engine, most He-111's ended up with outside ordnance on pylons anyway. The decreased drag from the elimination of the two nacelles might add some speed to the dowdy He-111.

Pardon the CRUDE photoshopping!

[GTX]

How about the massive single-engine of the He-119 applied to the He-111? I am currently working on a bomber version of a He-119 and noticed that the overall size (at least the fuselage) is only a tad smaller.  The overall horsepower would have been about the same. Although the "bomb-bay" might have been used up by the engine, most He-111's ended up with outside ordnance on pylons anyway. The decreased drag from the elimination of the two nacelles might add some speed to the dowdy He-111.

Pardon the CRUDE photoshopping!

Go back a couple of pages and you will find this:



the engine (a big double V beast) would probably need to be moved forward though.

Regards,

Greg

[sequoiaranger]

Good one GTX--sorry I didn't go back and check.

However, with this setup the radiator needs to be under the fuselage, not the glass nose, and the two rows of exhausts are way too close (the He-119 had the lower set(s) directly under the fuselage). I'll bring the engines up to the bomb-bay so the extension shaft doesn't wobble so much and vibrate the aircraft. We might be able to slant them out a little to the side (by the wing root) so that the ventral gunner doesn't get carbon monoxide poisoning!

I modestly propose this:

[GTX]

It really depend upon the engine type(s) used I suppose.  The He-119 had a DB 606A which you could also use, or one could go with something larger such as a DB 610 (same engine as most He-177s - with all the fun that brings) or something all together different - coupled Jumo 211 perhaps?  Later war, maybe something based upon a DB 603 or Jumo 213 or even a large non-coupled beast such as the Argus As 413?  Regardless of the engine used, I would probably go with contra-rotating props so as to maximise the thrust.

Given the He-111's fuselage is a bit larger than the He-119, it should give you more to play with in regards to engine/exhaust arrangements.  If I really put my mind to it, I could probably also factor in CofG etc.

As to the radiator, it may be neat to do an intake on the wing leading edge and then embed the radiator in the win itself so as to keep a clean arrangement.

Regards,

Greg

[sequoiaranger]

Looking at that drawing of the He-111 with a big "fan" up front, I pondered a smaller version. Y'all know how much I like Heinkel products, and I had made a 1/72 "trainer/fighter" out of a 1/144 He-111, and most recently the "Aichi 119" along the same lines. Now my mind is veering off onto my old Faller 1/100 He-111 and making a "downsized" He-119-type aircraft out of it. It's about the same size as the He-70, but rather than making an offshoot of that, I wanted something unique.

The Faller He-111 is a VERY OLD and rare kit. I almost used some of it for my "Aichi 119", but declined. The glass nose is wrongly-shaped and blimp-like, but could do for a solid nose. Even the wings are not quite shaped properly (for a He-111), but are definitely different than a He-70. The fuselage of the 1/100 He-111 is a little narrow for the big DB-606 like the He-119 had, so I am also thinking of "inventing" a new engine. An "X-16" that would essentially be an 8-cylinder DB 601 coupled to another--one mirror-imaged on top. I know, different oil systems, etc, for an inverted-V as opposed to an upright-V but hey, this is whif-land!  The fuselage of the He-111 is a vertical oval, whereas the Fw-190 is round (and wider), so instead of the full nose of the Fw-V-18 (first drawing), I might just use the four-bladed prop and spinner on the end of the He-111 "glass" nose (round cross-section) in the second illustration. I am also thinking of using the top-gunner's glass turned around (kinda like on my Aichi 119) for the pilot's canopy. I can even use my discarded He-119 vertical stabilizer to give slightly more area than the puny 1/100 He-111 or He-70!

So I am thinking of a large, high-altitude, supercharged long-distance fighter that might accompany the Ju-86P high-altitude bombers that operated almost with impunity over Britain. That is, until a special high-altitude Spitfire shot one down. I have a Fw-190V18 model that LOOKS cool, but I won't be using it for my Ta-152-based carrier-based torpedo bomber, so....? Then, a pressurized cockpit would be small, so I may use the He-70's diminutive canopy (but then people might truly mistake my model for a He-70 whif). Dunno, but I like the prospects. It's supposed to be a high-tech 1938-39 or earlier experiment, not a later, higher-tech version. Hmmmm.

[jcf]

Looking at that drawing of the He-111 with a big "fan" up front, I pondered a smaller version. Y'all know how much I like Heinkel products, and I had made a 1/72 "trainer/fighter" out of a 1/144 He-111, and most recently the "Aichi 119" along the same lines. Now my mind is veering off onto my old Faller 1/100 He-111 and making a "downsized" He-119-type aircraft out of it. It's about the same size as the He-70, but rather than making an offshoot of that, I wanted something unique.

The Faller He-111 is a VERY OLD and rare kit. I almost used some of it for my "Aichi 119", but declined. The glass nose is wrongly-shaped and blimp-like, but could do for a solid nose. Even the wings are not quite shaped properly (for a He-111), but are definitely different than a He-70. The fuselage of the 1/100 He-111 is a little narrow for the big DB-606 like the He-119 had, so I am also thinking of "inventing" a new engine. An "X-16" that would essentially be an 8-cylinder DB 601 coupled to another--one mirror-imaged on top. I know, different oil systems, etc, for an inverted-V as opposed to an upright-V but hey, this is whif-land!  The fuselage of the He-111 is a vertical oval, whereas the Fw-190 is round (and wider), so instead of the full nose of the Fw-V-18 (first drawing), I might just use the four-bladed prop and spinner on the end of the He-111 "glass" nose (round cross-section) in the second illustration. I am also thinking of using the top-gunner's glass turned around (kinda like on my Aichi 119) for the pilot's canopy. I can even use my discarded He-119 vertical stabilizer to give slightly more area than the puny 1/100 He-111 or He-70!

So I am thinking of a large, high-altitude, supercharged long-distance fighter that might accompany the Ju-86P high-altitude bombers that operated almost with impunity over Britain. That is, until a special high-altitude Spitfire shot one down. I have a Fw-190V18 model that LOOKS cool, but I won't be using it for my TA-162-based carrier-based torpedo bomber, so....? Then, a pressurized cockpit would be small, so I may use the He-70's diminutive canopy (but then people might truly mistake my model for a He-70 whif). Dunno, but I like the prospects. It's supposed to be a high-tech 1938-39 or earlier experiment, not a later, higher-tech version. Hmmmm.

I'd go for a Jumo 'X' engine as D-B seemed wedded to the side-by-side concept and Jumo did work on a cruciform layout diesel that was basically four Jumo 208 engines put together.

Attached are drawings of a mid-30s FW project for a pressurised long-range aircraft.
Note the two control cabins.

Jon