Machine Guns and Cannons (Ground, Vehicle, and Aircraft Mounted Weapons)

[Archibald]

I also remember a Sturmovik Tu-2 with no less than 88 (!!!) automatic guns in its weapon bay. Efficient, but no way of reloading such a thing...  

[Son of Damian]

Of course you could go the other way and create an Allied equivalent to this proposed anti-bomber He-177 (which used proposed to use Wfr.Gr.42 rockets):

There was also an experimental version of the Hs-129 that had six downward firing 75 or 105mm (not sure which) recoilless rifles that were fired when a nose mounted T shaped metal detector picked up the magnetic field of a tank. It would devistate a tank if it found it, the aircraft had to literally fly just a few feet over the tank to pick up the magnetic field.

GTX where do you find all these cool illustrations?

[jcf]

Japanese Mukade - Centipede - projects.





Several of the P1Y1 Ginga Mukade conversions were completed along with a number of modified G4M Betty aircraft. They were intended for raids against the B-29 bases.

Two Mukade versions of the Fugaku six-engined heavy bomber were also proposed, an anti-bomber version with 96 20mm cannon designed to fly above B-29 formations and shoot downwards and an anti-ship version with 400 7.7mm machine guns.

Info from Arawasi Magazine #4.

Cheers, Jon

[jcf]

Of course you could go the other way and create an Allied equivalent to this proposed anti-bomber He-177 (which used proposed to use Wfr.Gr.42 rockets):

There was also an experimental version of the Hs-129 that had six downward firing 75 or 105mm (not sure which) recoilless rifles that were fired when a nose mounted T shaped metal detector picked up the magnetic field of a tank. It would devistate a tank if it found it, the aircraft had to literally fly just a few feet over the tank to pick up the magnetic field.

GTX where do you find all these cool illustrations?

I believe you may be thinking of the SG 113, 77mm bore with a 45mm AP projectile:


Cheers, Jon

[GTX]

GTX where do you find all these cool illustrations?

All over the place - that particular one was from Luftwaffe Secret Projects, Volume 3: Ground Attack & Special Purpose Aircraft

And now one for Jon - where did you find your illustration?

Regards,

Greg

[jcf]

The SG 113 is from 'German Aircraft Guns WWI - WWII' by Edward J. Hoffschmidt, WE Inc., 1969.

The book is a combination of some original writing with Allied tech reports, transcribed interrogations, translated German documents and original illustrations/drawings from German manufacturers records. Loads of photos and drawings, some I've not seen anywhere else.

Cheers, Jon

[Son of Damian]

I believe you may be thinking of the SG 113, 77mm bore with a 45mm AP projectile:

Yep, thats it. They have a picture and profile of one of the Hs 129 fitted with it in the Squadron Signal Henschel Hs 129 in Action. There are a bunch of photos of it in Hs 129 Panzerjager from Classic Publications (paid a pretty penny to get it off ebay), but I can't find one on the net.  

[luft46models]

Sorry to continue the straying but for those of you who want to do the He177 rocket version Schatton Modellbau do a 1/72 conversion which includes all the brass tubes and some rockets - try Lonewulf Models if interested http://www.lonewulfmodels.co.uk

I've got one but still looks like you will have to drill out the bombay for the bottom portion

Regards

William

[pyro-manic]

Hi guys,

I'm currently working on a project of mine, which I hope to be able to share with you soon. However, I've run across a bit of a stumbling block, in that I can't find dimensions of the M39 20mm cannon, as used on the F5 and several of the Century-series fighters. I need to know at least the length, but also how bulky it is. It weighs slightly less than the ADEN or DEFA, which are similar designs of larger calibre, so I'm assuming it's a bit smaller, but how much smaller? My googling has returned nothing useful.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me, and apologies if this is in the wrong place.



PS: I'm enjoying this site immensely! I could never be bothered with all that rivet-counting business - I'd rather make something fun! 

[GTX]

Try here maybe.

Regards,

Greg

[Jeffry Fontaine]

The Monogram F-100D kit provides the breech and feed assembly for a pair of M39 cannons in 1/48th scale.  As far as dimensional information, a quick google search provided the following via Wikipedia:

M39 cannon (From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
The Pontiac M39 was a 20 mm single-barreled revolver cannon developed for the United States Air Force in the late 1940s. It was used on a number of fighter aircraft from the early 1950s through the 1970s.

The M39 was developed by the Springfield Armory, based on the World War II–era design of the German Mauser MG 213, a 20 mm (and 30 mm) cannon developed for the Luftwaffe, but not used in combat. The same design inspired the British ADEN cannon and the French DEFA, but American designers chose a smaller 20 mm round to increase the weapon's rate of fire and muzzle velocity at the expense of hitting power.

Initially designated the T-160, the new gun was installed for combat testing on a number of F-86 Sabre aircraft under the "Gunval" program in late 1952, and used in action over Korea in early 1953. It was subsequently adopted as standard armament of the F-86H fighter-bomber, F-100 Super Sabre, F-101A and F-101C Voodoo, and the F-5 Freedom Fighter. Current models of the F-5 Tiger II still use the M39A2 version of this weapon, with 280 rounds per gun in single-seat models and 140 rounds per gun in two-seat aircraft.

The M39 is not the same as the Hispano M3 derivatives used by the United States Navy (as the M3 and the later Colt Mk 12 cannon) on aircraft like the A-4 Skyhawk and F-8 Crusader, nor the Hispano-derived M24 used by some USAF aircraft of the late 1940s. These weapons were gas-operated, essentially large machine guns, as opposed to revolver cannons.

Specifications
Type: single-barrel automatic cannon
Caliber: 20 mm × 102 (0.79 in)
Operation: five-chamber revolver
Length: N/A
Weight (complete): 81 kg (178.5 lb)
Rate of fire: 1,500 rpm
Muzzle velocity: 1,030 m/s (3,300 ft/s
Projectile weight: 101 g (3.56 oz)

The only dimensional information they missed was the length of the weapon.  According to the pdf file link below the overall length of the weapon is 1830mm (72.05"). 

This page provides an image of the breech end of the M39 minus the feed mechanism: http://www.ordtech-industries.com/2products/M39_Colt/M39_Colt.html
This page provides a front view of the M39 from a museum display: http://news.webshots.com/photo/2611050890094057110xAfCHx
Link to pdf file on the M39 20mm cannon: http://www.aei-systems.co.uk/airproducts-000085-document1.pdf

[jcf]

Pontiac M39
Length Over All: 183 cm(72.05 in)
Barrel Length: 136 cm(53.54 in)
Weight: 81 kg (178.57)

Aden (3M and Mk 4)
Length Over All: 159 cm(62.59 in)
Barrel Length: 108 cm(42.52 in)
Weight: 87 kg (191.80)

DEFA 30M541
Length Over All: 166 cm(65.35 in)
Barrel Length: 110 cm(43.30 in)
Weight: 84 kg (185.19)

DEFA 30M552/3/4
Length Over All: 170 cm(66.93 in)
Barrel Length: 140 cm(55.12 in)
Weight: 80 kg (176.37)

The M39 is considerably slimmer than any of the cannon listed with a much smaller breech assembly, approximately 1/3 of the overall length as compared to roughly half for the others.

Jon

[sotoolslinger]

I know most armor is 1/35 or larger but does anyone know of a source for a 1/48 40 to 88 mm cannon? I'm thinking of something along the lines of a Duka gun for the bomb bay of the Avenger/Skyrocket.

[jcf]

I know most armor is 1/35 or larger but does anyone know of a source for a 1/48 40 to 88 mm cannon? I'm thinking of something along the lines of a Duka gun for the bomb bay of the Avenger/Skyrocket.

You'd be better off using plastic tubing to build it, the pics of the Duka show a weapon that shares little more than calibre with the German AA/AT gun.

Jon

[sotoolslinger]

Thought about that but I plan to have the bomb bay open and the gun exposed with the ammo feed exposed so I was hoping to be able to scavenge components to avoid a huge amount of scratching. Didn't someone do a B-25 with the 75 mm cannon nose?