Potential projects

[Weaver]

Okay, this is the list of actual modelling, as opposed to profile, projects that I'm currently considering, some more seriously than others. I'd appreciate any comment/constructive criticisms you FAR more experienced folk have to offer.

All would be 1/72nd for cost/space reasons.

(EOCM) denotes that the project belongs to the Cheshire Militia Alt. History I've started, although some may be operated by other air arms.

1. Lightning F.12/F.13 (as per my first profile). Three-engined, delta-winged, tandem-seated EE Lightning as per http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,19812.0.html . Plan: two Lightning kits with the fuselage halves aft of the cockpit plated apart at the top to give the three engine bays and the half-cone intakes for the to two. Mirage wings, Lightning fins. Forward fuselage either: a) cut 'n' shut two Lightning cockpits together (awkward canopy), or b) graft the bottom half of a) onto the upper half of a Mirage/Starfighter two-seater (easier cockpit, but might lose "Lightningish" character). Fuselage-mounted gear from either Jaguar or 1/144th Avro RJ (BAe-146).

2. Super Lysander (inspired by the Unspat my Ride GB proposal). Lysander with lower forward fuselage and inner wing (enough to carry the u/c) of either a Brewster Buffalo or a P-40 grafted in, possibly with the engine of either added too. Not sure if the Buffalo is too wide and/or the P-40 is too narrow......

3. Defiant-Wind/Bittern II. Defiant fuselage with Whirlwind wings and engines and a nose gun installation. The Whilwind's cannons would be the safe nose option, but more in keeping with the turret fighter concept would be 4 x .303s in an elevating (but not rotating) mounting as per the Boulton-Paul Bittern night-fighter of the late '20s.

4. Avro Avenger/Vindex (EOCM) (Can't decide on the name). Two-seat strike aircraft based loosely on the real-but-never-built Avro 710 (half-scale Vulcan) research aircraft. The planform is so like a Javelin that it's the obvious choice, just needing tip fins (half the tailplane). The challenge would be to make it look less like a modded Javelin. I like the idea of a side-by-side cockpit, Vulcan-style on a slightly widened fuselage, but I'm stuck for where to get the donor cockpit from. The Matchbox Hunter T.7 seems ideal, but they also seem thin on the ground now. Nosecone also needs changing from the distinctive Javelin one too......

5. Avro Atom (EOCM). A light fighter/strike type based loosely on the real Avro 727 submitted to NBMR.1 (won by the G.91). Fairly sure about this one: early MiG-21 wings and cockpit on an Airfix Gnat T.1 fuselage. Would be perfectly sensible to leave the Gnat's fuselage-mounted u/c in place, but the 727 had root-mounted, forward-retracting gear (similar to an F-14), which it MIGHT be possible to do by adapting the MiG's u'c, sine the Gnat fuselage is so tiny.

6. Avro Archer (EOCM). As per my profile here: http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,20031.0.html . Interceptor fighter which is essentially an all-jet version of the late Avro 720 proposals. I'd like to do this, but to be honest, I havn't a clue where to start, since XF-92 kits are note exactly thick on the ground and probably too collectable to whiff, and nothing else strikes me as suitable, other than a serious re-design. One of the problems in that the original version is short, about 10ft shorter than the average MiG-21/Mirage/Starfighter/whatever. I'm warming to the idea of a mid-delta-winged F-86D, possibly with a Hunter canopy to make it less distinctive. Suggestions?

7. BombHawk. A Hawker Sea Hawk with the Nene replaced by two Metrovick Beryls in the wing roots (Banshee-style) and a "mini-Canberra" centre-section with a fuel tank above a cranked spar and a bomb-bay below it. Should be easy to add tubular profiles to the wing roots using drop-tanks or some such to give the new engine bays, in fact it'd be so subtle that I'd probably have to model the bomb doors open just to make the point....

8. Westforland "Whirlignat". A Junkyard Special based on the leftovers from 3. and 5. Basically, a light fighter with a Whirlwind fuselage, Gnat wings and podded engines, the latter from either a business jet kit or the 1/144th Avro RJ I've already got.....

9. TurboSpit (EOCM). A Spitfire based equivalent of the Cavalier Turbo-Mustang/Piper Enforcer for COIN work. Long turboprop nose (got a set of Mi-24 jetpipes... ), possibly with contraprops, certainly with tip-tanks and an A-37B-style improbably huge weapon load......

10. Hueyacobra.  My Flying Sorcery GB project leave me with a complete Bell-204 rotor system. It occurs to me to put it on a pylon on an Airacobra, with the cockpit moved forward into the gun bay, to give a completely different "Hueycobra": a Rotordyneish autogyro......

11. Gloster Ripper/Reaper/Raptor.  Swapped about Meteors. Ripper = F.8 with NF.14 wings, to give ground attack aircraft with 8 x 20mm cannons. Reaper = reverse of above: NF.14 body with F.8 gunless outer wings, and Firestreaks/early Red Deans on the wingtips. Raptor = F.3 with Trent (ish) turboprop conversion, offset nosewheel and long-barrelled cannon, A-10 style. Still like these ideas, but a discussion with Mr. Wooksta makes it clear that the available kits don't support swapping bits as easily as the real aircraft would have done!

[Weaver]

Update: I've done a profile for the Avro Avenger, based on the build plan: http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,20031.0.html

[Ed S]

Well, you'd better get started.  I want to see all of these in plastic.   


(But I vote for 4,5,9 as my favorites.)

Ed

[Aircav]

I had an idea of a post-war Turbo powered Lysander 

[Weaver]

Well, you'd better get started.  I want to see all of these in plastic.   


(But I vote for 4,5,9 as my favorites.)

Ed

Well I'd best win a few more ebay auctions first then......

Not much will happen for a while yet as a) various kits have to actually show up in the post, and b) I have to finish my Flying Saucery GB entry first, it being on a deadline.

[Weaver]

I had an idea of a post-war Turbo powered Lysander 

Not an unreasonable idea: look at the PC-6 Turbo-Porter, or even the AN-3 Turbo-Colt that the Poles cooked up....

[The Rat]

7. BombHawk. A Hawker Sea Hawk with the Nene replaced by two Metrovick Beryls in the wing roots (Banshee-style) and a "mini-Canberra" centre-section with a fuel tank above a cranked spar and a bomb-bay below it. Should be easy to add tubular profiles to the wing roots using drop-tanks or some such to give the new engine bays, in fact it'd be so subtle that I'd probably have to model the bomb doors open just to make the point....

There's the one I want to see! 

[Daryl J.]

Two words of advice for the BombHawk:  Build it.     



Daryl J.

[Weaver]

Re the Bombhawk: any bright ideas for a proper name? I'm stumped................

[Weaver]

Various kits arrived courtesy of the ebay fairy tonight, although frustratingly, none of them represent both halves of any one project ... Man I'd forgotten how bad old Airfix kits can be! Bit of a culture shock.......

One thing that strikes me though, is that I might use Mirage rather than MiG-21 wings for the Avro Atom. They're actually closer to the Avro 727 size than the MiG's, but I've always thought the 727 a bit over-winged anyway. However, they do seem to fit a treat, and my speculation about being able to use the bigger aircraft's u/c was correct. Hmmmmm.....

The Defiant was a pleasant surprise, because it's upper wing breaks completely outboard of the fuselage, rather than just leaving a stub root-fillet, which means that the Whirlwind wing should mate up a treat. I can also use the Merlin and spare wing for the Super Lizzie too.....

[The Rat]

If you need a Sea Hawk I've got one, picked it up for the decals so they will be missing.

[Weaver]

If you need a Sea Hawk I've got one, picked it up for the decals so they will be missing.

Thanks for the offer, which I shall bear in mind. I have one or two irons in the fire at the moment, so I need to see how those pan out first.


Revised list with a few additions in red :

1. Lightning F.12/F.13 (as per my first profile). Three-engined, delta-winged, tandem-seated EE Lightning as per http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,19812.0.html . Plan: two Lightning kits with the fuselage halves aft of the cockpit plated apart at the top to give the three engine bays and the half-cone intakes for the to two. Mirage wings, Lightning fins. Forward fuselage either: a) cut 'n' shut two Lightning cockpits together (awkward canopy), or b) graft the bottom half of a) onto the upper half of a Mirage/Starfighter two-seater (easier cockpit, but might lose "Lightningish" character). Fuselage-mounted gear from either Jaguar or 1/144th Avro RJ (BAe-146).

2. Super Lysander (inspired by the Unspat my Ride GB proposal). Lysander with lower forward fuselage and inner wing (enough to carry the u/c) of either a Brewster Buffalo or a P-40 grafted in, possibly with the engine of either added too. Not sure if the Buffalo is too wide and/or the P-40 is too narrow......

3. Defiant-Wind/Bittern II. Defiant fuselage with Whirlwind wings and engines and a nose gun installation. The Whilwind's cannons would be the safe nose option, but more in keeping with the turret fighter concept would be 4 x .303s in an elevating (but not rotating) mounting as per the Boulton-Paul Bittern night-fighter of the late '20s.

4. Avro Avenger/Vindex (EOCM) (Can't decide on the name). Two-seat strike aircraft based loosely on the real-but-never-built Avro 710 (half-scale Vulcan) research aircraft. The planform is so like a Javelin that it's the obvious choice, just needing tip fins (half the tailplane). The challenge would be to make it look less like a modded Javelin. I like the idea of a side-by-side cockpit, Vulcan-style on a slightly widened fuselage, but I'm stuck for where to get the donor cockpit from. The Matchbox Hunter T.7 seems ideal, but they also seem thin on the ground now. Nosecone also needs changing from the distinctive Javelin one too......

5. Avro Atom (EOCM). A light fighter/strike type based loosely on the real Avro 727 submitted to NBMR.1 (won by the G.91). Fairly sure about this one: early MiG-21 wings and cockpit on an Airfix Gnat T.1 fuselage. Would be perfectly sensible to leave the Gnat's fuselage-mounted u/c in place, but the 727 had root-mounted, forward-retracting gear (similar to an F-14), which it MIGHT be possible to do by adapting the MiG's u'c, sine the Gnat fuselage is so tiny.

6. Avro Archer (EOCM). As per my profile here: http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,20031.0.html . Interceptor fighter which is essentially an all-jet version of the late Avro 720 proposals. I'd like to do this, but to be honest, I havn't a clue where to start, since XF-92 kits are note exactly thick on the ground and probably too collectable to whiff, and nothing else strikes me as suitable, other than a serious re-design. One of the problems in that the original version is short, about 10ft shorter than the average MiG-21/Mirage/Starfighter/whatever. I'm warming to the idea of a mid-delta-winged F-86D, possibly with a Hunter canopy to make it less distinctive. Suggestions?

7. BombHawk. A Hawker Sea Hawk with the Nene replaced by two Metrovick Beryls in the wing roots (Banshee-style) and a "mini-Canberra" centre-section with a fuel tank above a cranked spar and a bomb-bay below it. Should be easy to add tubular profiles to the wing roots using drop-tanks or some such to give the new engine bays, in fact it'd be so subtle that I'd probably have to model the bomb doors open just to make the point.... I have a feeling that when measured up, the Beryls might turn out to be too long to reasonably fit the Seahawk airframe. In that case, idea 7b. is to stretch the fuselage in the middle and fit a pair of A-4 Skyhawk wings, which also solves the problem of where the gear retracts to.... Also, either of these could be inserted into Patchwork World (new name for the EOCM background), in which case Hawker never exists as such because it never needs to change it's name. They therefore become the Sopwith Strikehawk and Skyhawk, respectively.

8. Westforland "Whirlignat". A Junkyard Special based on the leftovers from 3. and 5. Basically, a light fighter with a Whirlwind fuselage, Gnat wings and podded engines, the latter from either a business jet kit or the 1/144th Avro RJ I've already got.....

9. TurboSpit (EOCM). A Spitfire based equivalent of the Cavalier Turbo-Mustang/Piper Enforcer for COIN work. Long turboprop nose (got a set of Mi-24 jetpipes... ), possibly with contraprops, certainly with tip-tanks and an A-37B-style improbably huge weapon load......

10. Hueyacobra.   My Flying Sorcery GB project leave me with a complete Bell-204 rotor system. It occurs to me to put it on a pylon on an Airacobra, with the cockpit moved forward into the gun bay, to give a completely different "Hueycobra": a Rotordyneish autogyro......

11. Gloster Ripper/Reaper/Raptor.   Swapped about Meteors. Ripper = F.8 with NF.14 wings, to give ground attack aircraft with 8 x 20mm cannons. Reaper = reverse of above: NF.14 body with F.8 gunless outer wings, and Firestreaks/early Red Deans on the wingtips. Raptor = F.3 with Trent (ish) turboprop conversion, offset nosewheel and long-barrelled cannon, A-10 style. Still like these ideas, but a discussion with Mr. Wooksta makes it clear that the available kits don't support swapping bits as easily as the real aircraft would have done!

12. F-5x4. An F-5 with another F-5, minus cockpit hump, grafted onto it upside down, and both sets of wings fitted in Delanne biplane style, to give a 4-engined F-5.

13. Northrop N300 A-5. A real project (shown in ASP - Fighters) which is an early step along the road from the F-5 to the F-18. Basically, it's an F-5E with th wing moved to the shoulder position and Jaguar-style u/c in the fuselage, the idea being to allow the wing section to be chosen without regard to gear stowage considerations. Looks extremely doable.....

[Weaver]

I don't think that the Bomb Hawk would work out, simply because your planned engines are too big.  Scale the aircraft up and you've another (real) HSA project.

I may be able to supply some spare Hunter T7 front ends.  I had a few sans T7 front end so took one, did a bit of work in the cockpit and then moulded it.  I'll be using that instead of the kit nose in all of my planned T12s and I may have the plastic bits left over.  Aeroclub does a canopy and the requisite bang seats.

LOL - crossed posts or what? 

According to Wiki, the Beryl was about a meter in diameter and 4 meters long, but I'm not sure how much of that was extended jetpipe. Looking at the SRA.1, I'd got the impression it was little thing in the wingroots, but it now looks as though it extended most of the way to the nose.

Is it the HSA project to which you refer the P.1108 to NR/A.39?

[Weaver]

I think it's more likely that I replied just after your post and didn't see it!  I haven't got my references to hand so I'm not sure which project you mean.

Sorry - P.1108 was the HSA submission to the Buccaneer requirement. Two seats side-by-side in a T7ish nose, semi-recessed Green Cheese/Red Beard, small delta wings shaped roughly like a mini-Javelin, four small turbojets under the inboard trailing edge fed by underwing "letterbox" intakes and a delta tail at the base of the fin.

As for the T7 noses, that was for the Avro Javelin deelie you mentioned.

Ah, see what you mean. So just to be clear, you have spare nose sections (because you've molded your own), but without canopies, so I'd need an Aeroclub one. Is that correct? If so, then yes, I'd like one please - what do you want for it?

As for the Defiant posibility, you may want to consider a single 20mm cannon in the turret.  BP tested a Defiant with one.  I may do it with an Airfix one but add four 303s in the wings as well.

Interesting - I've never heard of that. I was presuming that any serious development work on turret fighters would be taking place in the "8 x .303" era, so adding an extra four to the Defiant would be in keeping. I've been debating how to do the MGs:

Option a) is to have them inside the nose, elevating though two slots. This gives less frontal area, but more drag from the slots. Modelling-wise, it fits in with my plan to make the new nose by laminating vertical sheets of plasticard together to get the rough form and then PSRing it into shape. All I'd have to do it cut a couple of the inner layers short to make the slots. There was an experimental MiG-15 variant with cannons in this kind of setup.

Option b) is to have the guns in circular blisters on the side of a more flattened nose, which is smoother but wider. This is more like the original Bittern concept.

I've always though forward and upwards firing guns (whether fixed or elevating) deserved more attention than they got. With them you can:

1. formate on the bomber in it's weakest defensive arc (below and behind) and shoot at it all day.

2. make a head-on pass, and instead of having a limited firing opportunity before break-away, trigger the guns and then fly under the bomber, "straffing" it from below, effectively.

3. fire "upwards" into a turn, thus bringing guns to bear on an agile opponent who you can't out-turn 9this was the idea of the MiG-15 version)

4. lock them forwards and be no worse off than a fixed-gun fighter.

[Weaver]

Option 4 the Defiant could do anyway, hence the reason for the pilot having a firing button on the control column.

As for the Hunter nose, I'll have a dig through the box.  They're spare so I'm not after owt for them!

That's very decent of you - cheers! (Free or not, I shall owe you one, though....)