Gunship ideas

[philp]

Commander Ali Nazar settled into the turret of his T-55 for his turn on watch.  He and his comrades are jubilant after having crossed the Suez Canal, breaking through the Israeli fortifications and racing across the Sinai.
It seems the hated enemy has nothing to stop them from reaching Tel Aviv.

Without warning, a stream of fire leaps from the sky like lightning and the ZSU-23 off to Ali's left explodes.  Ali furiously scans the heavens looking for the tormentor as the tank next to him also erupts, blasted by secondary explosions.

Ali fires his 12.7 mm AA gun trying desperately to hit the attacker.  He sees a tongue of flame coming straight for him. It is the last thing that he sees.

Circling the Egyptian bivouac area Major Yavin and his crew of the Nordatlas Gunship (Gryphon) systematically eliminate the position.

[philp]

Ok, I have a thing for gunships since I saw my first footage of Puff firing.

So Whiff gunships rank high on my list with 2 versions currently under consideration.  The Nordatlas kit my Heller recently came to me and while I was just going to make a normal Israeli version, the gunship idea hit since it looks a lot like a AC-119.  Camouflaged with tri-color uppers and black sides/underneath.  Not sure which weapons to arm it with but there will be a couple of 20mm Vulcans for sure.

The other idea I have is a Gunvan in Sultan of Oman markings from their 1970's conflict.  Green/Earth uppers, Black underneath and a couple miniguns to round it out.

I have seen several other great gunships on the site so know I am not the only person into them.  Post your ideas, pics, profiles etc.

[AeroplaneDriver]

Well this was my gunship idea from a couple of years ago. 





Armament is two 25mm Bushmasters, 1 GAU-12, and one 40mm Bofors.  The wing pylon carries a Sindewinder and two Hellfires.  I was a little pleased ot read after fininshing this model that the USAF are adding Hellfires to AC-130s. 

My original idea was for a Dash 8 gunship, but since there I didn't have a HC Dash kit I went with the Fokker.  If anyone ever makes a Q400 kit I
d like to do an updated gunship with that.

[Maverick]

I remember the Fokker AD, it was sweet.

Phil, as a minor matter of curiousity for you backstory, how is it that the Shilka's didn't see the gunship on their radar?  Kinda sorta defeats the purpose of having them there methinks.

That said, Nortalas would be a good choice for the mod, nice high wings & a big belly.

Regards,

Mav

[GTX]

Phil, as a minor matter of curiousity for you backstory, how is it that the Shilka's didn't see the gunship on their radar?  Kinda sorta defeats the purpose of having them there methinks.

You beat me to it!

Regards,

Greg

[philp]

Too busy celebrating their victory I guess.

Hey, it is my first try at Whiffstory.

[jcf]

John brings up an important issue, it needs to be remembered that while Spooky and its ilk are great for
"unconventional" and "asymmetric" warfare and mop-up operations, they would not fair well against an enemy with effective, and intact, air defenses.


Jon

[Maverick]

Quite rightly so Jon.  Most if not all gunship ops were geared towards the night over Vietnam and later.  Cases where they were still around in the daylight even during 'limited' conflicts, usually ended up with a burning hole in the ground and lotsa dead crewmen.  Anybody with a 12.7 or handy Strela can make some real pain for the tooling gunship in the daylight, to say nothing of radar guided guns & SP systems.

Regards,

Mav

[Burncycle]

That's what the hellfires are for

In all seriousness though, the gunship should be operating well above the effective ceiling of the 23mm. I wouldn't be surprised if she was carrying low band jamming equipment too. MANPADS are the big threat, but so far operating at night and on the edge of their envelope seems to work well enough.

The Gau-12 might not find much use though (ineffective @ operational altitudes) and the sidewinders... well if you have to use those, something has gone horribly wrong! 

[Maverick]

BC,

In equal seriousness, whilst it's all well & good attempting to fly above or carry ECM gear for AA weapons be they gun or missile, the simple, historically supported fact is: fixed-wing gunship + daylight = bodybags for the crew.

Vietnam, Grenada & Desert Storm all have a story to tell about the aircraft that decided to hang around in daylight.  The end of that story is a smoking hole in the ground to ruin the story's end.  It's rather interesting to equally note that in most of these instances, they've been late model AC-130s with heavier weapons and more comprehensive self-protection suites.

As Jon & I have mentioned, these aircraft are designed for 'limited' wars, counter-insurgencies and the like.  But even then, they are designed to be night interdiction platforms.

Taking out an insurgent with a Hellfire seems like overkill to be honest, but I guess if you're dumb enough to fly in daylight in a Spectre you have to take what you get.

Regards,

Mav

[Burncycle]

I'm aware of the dangers of flying gunships in daylight, and nowhere did I claim they should operate during the daytime.

Regarding your post on gunship ideas philp, I'm currently working (very slowly ) on a modern what-if of the OV-10 NOGS in 1/72nd scale. It will have a 30mm Bushmaster III in a turret underneath the airframe, a modern sensor ball / laser designator, longer wings, an additional hardpoint on each wing, refueling probe, and more powerful engines with four/five bladed props.

[Maverick]

BC,

I must have misnterpreted your original post.  I said that 12.7s or Strelas (SAM-7 MANPADS) would make life difficult for a gunship operating in daylight.  Your reply was Hellfires... sounds like a reply to the issue of a gunship operating in daylight to me, but then I could be wrong.

Regards,

Mav

[Burncycle]

Sorry, my hellfire comment was in reference to nailing that pesky shilka from well out of range

[Maverick]

My apologies BC,

I didn't see mention of the ZSU-23-4, but there you go.

Speaking of gunships, I've often wondered why Uncle Ivan didn't think about the concept with their own designs.  I mean every tinpot dictator usually has Sov kit, so a gunship An-12 or -32 or -whatever other transport Papa Antonov has got on the production schedule seems a logical thing.  Fairly simple to fit out a cargo bay with guns for a 'quick change' along with rudimentary sights in the cockpit like they did with the original AC-47 (then called FC-47... OMG talk about seriously p!ssed fighter jocks!!!).

Given that most of these tyrants operate against their own people more than external aggressors, the chances of air-defences are fairly small and a couple of appropriately equipped ships could really make hell of a civilian 'uprising', along with the added bonus of allegedly buying 'transports' in the first place.

Obviously not devious enough for 'em.

Regards,

Mav

[Weaver]

My apologies BC,

I didn't see mention of the ZSU-23-4, but there you go.

Speaking of gunships, I've often wondered why Uncle Ivan didn't think about the concept with their own designs.  I mean every tinpot dictator usually has Sov kit, so a gunship An-12 or -32 or -whatever other transport Papa Antonov has got on the production schedule seems a logical thing.  Fairly simple to fit out a cargo bay with guns for a 'quick change' along with rudimentary sights in the cockpit like they did with the original AC-47 (then called FC-47... OMG talk about seriously p!ssed fighter jocks!!!).

Given that most of these tyrants operate against their own people more than external aggressors, the chances of air-defences are fairly small and a couple of appropriately equipped ships could really make hell of a civilian 'uprising', along with the added bonus of allegedly buying 'transports' in the first place.

Obviously not devious enough for 'em.

Regards,

Mav

The AN-74 with it's high-mounted engines would be good, and the big, 30mm 6-barrelled gun off the MiG-27 would be the ideal compromise between a Vulcan and a Bofors. In addition, how about a 12.7mm four barrelled job (Hind-D) for small, soft targets (guy in a field) and a Vasiliek 82mm automatic mortar to demolish hard cover (guy in an Afghan compound)?

Funnily enough, I just saw a package deal auction on ebay for an AC-47 and a Catalina - now that got me thinking....