TSR.2 ... interceptor!!!

[TsrJoe]

aaarrrggghhh...ive just found some more supposedly 'serious' TSR.2 related sites on the net which mention a ... quote...

'proposed interceptor TSR.2 with Falcon and Sparrow missiles for the Canadians as a replacement for their ill fated CF.105'

and see also...Wings of Fame, Volume 4 page131...quote...

'At one stage BAC did propose an AAM. equipped version of the TSR.2 for the CAF. to serve as a long range interceptor after Canada's own CF.105 was cancelled. This version would have carried a mix of Sparrow and Falcon missilesand there id no doubt Sidewinder AAMs could have been easily integrated.'

... as ive posted before...i reckon this is total bs. i nor any of my fellow TSR.2 colleagues can find any official source material for this one, or indeed any 'officially' proposed interceptor variant of TSR.2.

I have no problems with 'what if' hypotheses with relation to speculative developments of any aircraft (and i would be the first to support anyone doing so with the TSR.2!) but as we all know only too well if a factual error is repeated often enough in presented research it soon becomes a self referencing fact ... and as all of the original people involved with the aircraft back in the 60's are reaching that certain age i feel it is important that the core source information remains verified and uncorrupted as in very few years indeed such erronious suppositions may prove to be impossible to refute!

I recall asking a few chaps years ago who would definately have known if such a thing was actually proposed (a similar variant was speculativly mentioned in the 1976 RAF. yearbook!) to which this drew a complete blank, and after a lecture at the Yorkshire Air Museum few years back by Jim Dell and Bill Gunston i distinctly recall asking the above noted pieces author as to its attributed source, to which the responce was 'id heard it during some of the private press briefings on the aircraft whilst i was working as a correspondant for Interavia' ...sorry Bill but...  

The earliest air defence TSR.2 reference i have on file is from the hypothetical article by Derek Wood, of Project Cancelled fame, in the infamous 1976 RAF. yearbook, in a piece called 'Wings clipped and cancelled'!!!...  

...just a thought following the above...the dates dont seem to tie in either...cancellation of CF.105 in 1959 was way before the TSR.2 was even at design finalisation stages...hmmm...!

sorry for ranting like a jmn. on this one but as you can probably guess this is a subject on which i feel particularly strong about, especialy as i have spent way more years than i care to recall researching our favourite 'pheonix'

cheers, joe  

ps. having said all that...id be more than happy to be proven wrong...!

[Mairfrog]

I know the site you mean, always suspected a certain creativity with the truth. The TSR would make a terrible interceptor cos its got no wing area. It would be like trying to use a Tornado or something.

Oh bugger!

[elmayerle]

Falcons?  Excepting, perhaps, the last operational variants, why would anyone use Falcons?  As I remember, the USAF wasn't all that fond of them once the Sidewinder came along.

[Captain Canada]

No need to apologize for such a rant, Joe !

It makes too much sense to me, to get these facts straight before it's too late !  Just look at all the jackasses ( and I use that term lightly ! ) over here who have come out of the woodwork to sully the legend od Billy Bishop......80 years after the war and 40 years after his death ! Scumbags ought to be strung up........

Keep the faith !

Toadman  

[Ollie]

Yeah Joe, you are one of the only kind of JMN we like, that is Specific Subject Experts or SSEs.  We need you guys!

I'm the lousy jokes SSE between others!

   

[P1127]

cheers chaps (i think!) i was beginning to think i was turning into a jmn
(whatdya mean beginning to turn into...)

MN maybe, but you have Joy!! (Does Celine know?)

[P1127]

My thought on a TSR2 interceptor was always WHY?

Plenty of other 'live' interceptor type projects when the TSR was 'live'. and adding a VG wing would surely add so much in weight as to offset the advantages?

[elmayerle]

*G* as I understand it from "Avro Aircraft and Cold War Aviation", the Arrow was offered to the RAF in a version that could fulfill both the GOR.329 and GOR.339 roles with variations in the weapons bay pallet.

[Geoff_B]

*G* as I understand it from "Avro Aircraft and Cold War Aviation", the Arrow was offered to the RAF in a version that could fulfill both the GOR.329 and GOR.339 roles with variations in the weapons bay pallet.

I have a feeling this is the Vickers 571 project that was offered to Canada in the late 50's when Arrow got the chop. This aircraft was then merged with the EE P17 to produce the TSR-2 but in doing so removed the interceptor capability (the cockpit was moved fwd thus reducing the nose cross section that would allow a larger radar cone. The new profile was better for a deep penetrating strike aircraft but poor for a fighter.

Cheers

Geoff B B)