BAE-Sepecat Jaguar, Mitsubushi F-1 and T-2

[Archibald]

THe Japanese actually wanted to buy the Jaguar outright, but the deal couldn't be cut (something to do with licence fees, IIRC), so an alternative arrangement was reached whereby they "designed" their own version of it. Hence the near total (but NOT total, please note) similarity.

How about a fighter Jaguar? Now stop laughing, the Jag with top-rated Adours has slightly MORE afterburning thrust than a Mirage F.1, and only 10 sq.ft. less wing area. Put the projected big wing on it, with six pylons plus tip rails, and a "Sea-Harrierized" nose with a raised cockpit & radar (Blue Fox?). It's never going to scare an F-16 any more than a Mirage F.1 is, but it'd work a treat against the hordes of heavily-laden MiG-27s/Su-17s/Su-24s expected to be heading West, not to mention the export sales....

It was much heavier than the F-1 and aerodynamics were crap. The Jaguar-M was uttershite, underpowered, despite the fact it was the only competitor to have reheat! No way you can change it into a decent naval interceptor. I take a F1M everyday, even more with the M53...

[Weaver]

THe Japanese actually wanted to buy the Jaguar outright, but the deal couldn't be cut (something to do with licence fees, IIRC), so an alternative arrangement was reached whereby they "designed" their own version of it. Hence the near total (but NOT total, please note) similarity.

How about a fighter Jaguar? Now stop laughing, the Jag with top-rated Adours has slightly MORE afterburning thrust than a Mirage F.1, and only 10 sq.ft. less wing area. Put the projected big wing on it, with six pylons plus tip rails, and a "Sea-Harrierized" nose with a raised cockpit & radar (Blue Fox?). It's never going to scare an F-16 any more than a Mirage F.1 is, but it'd work a treat against the hordes of heavily-laden MiG-27s/Su-17s/Su-24s expected to be heading West, not to mention the export sales....

It was much heavier than the F-1 and aerodynamics were crap. The Jaguar-M was uttershite, underpowered, despite the fact it was the only competitor to have reheat! No way you can change it into a decent naval interceptor. I take a F1M everyday, even more with the M53...

No it wasn't:

Parameter : Jaguar : Mirage F1

Empty weight : 15, 400lb : 16,000lb
Normal Loaded weight : 24,250lb : 24,540lb
Max TO weight : 34,600lb : 35,700lb
Afterburning thrust (Adour 102) : 14,610lb : 15,870lb
Afterburning thrust (Adour 106) : 16,860lb : 15,870lb

So the Jag has a lower empty weight than the F1, but a greater MTO, which means it's a basically more efficient aircraft. With later engines (as specified in my proposal) it also has more thrust, and the Jaguar M could have had these too.

IIRC, one of the "objections" to the Jaguar M was that it's approach characteristics to the carrier with one engine out were a bit marginal. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the approach path of a Super Etendard or Mirage with one engine out is vertical.....

[Weaver]

Jusat got an early Matchbox Jaguar from ebay, and it has long intake splitter plates that never appeared on production aircraft: makes the Jag fighter one step closer (must butcher a Mirage F1 for it's wing, eh Archi?  )

[Zen]

The wing on the Jag is quite good actualy, and certainly upto Air-to-air combat, as it was designed for it, just the machine lacks power.

[Mossie]

The Jaguar Big Wing proposal I posted above was quite similar to the F-1's wing.

[elmayerle]

If some one really wants to do a cross between a Jaguar M and a Mitsubishi F-1/T-2, I've got, at home, a spare Heller 1/50 Jaguar-M with the long splitter plates.  It was purchased, cheaply, as a back up should my conversion to a production configuration, with radar nose like the Indians and, I think, some others use (though it'd have some elctro-optical attack systems, too).  I've also got some sparet T-2CCV kits in 1/72 to hybridize with the FBW Jaguar to produce an updated version; looking at the Jag single-seat cockpit, M-61 gun installation, and a large multi-function radar in the nose as well as the undernose EO bits.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Real world Big Wing Jaguar proposal:



Quite a war load, extra pylon below the wings & tip rails too, as well as the overwing pylons.  I guess the overwing pylons could be freed up for other weapons or gas bags, in a similar way to the Saudi Lightnings.  Add the LERX & FBW from the Jaguar ACT & you would have quite a capable aircraft.

The big wing profile looks quite similar to the Mirage F.1 wing.  Is it the same, or is it a completely new design? 

I would imagine that the additional outboard wing stores pylons would be pretty much identical to the original pylon in size and shape.

[Zen]

Considering the periode its likely an early supercritical type as used on the Hawk. So no, not like the Mirage F1.

[kitnut617]

But what about big wing and ACT LERX:

Edit: Oops! Duncan beat me to it.

[nev]

Holy Thread Revival! 

Yes, another one from the back end of the forum. 

This time I would like to ask if anyone has ever done a check-fit of the old Fujimi T-2 kit with the Jaguar to see if it is a workable solution to create a two seat Jaguar from the parts?  Unless someone kits a two hole Jaguar there are not many other options in 1/48th scale. 

Don't Paragon Designs do a 2-seat conversion.  Their stuff is usually top-notch and there are some stunning 2 seat Jags on Britmodeller.

[Mossie]

Considering the periode its likely an early supercritical type as used on the Hawk. So no, not like the Mirage F1.

Well, I just overlayed the pic of the BW Jag onto one of the Mirage F1 & the two are very similar if not quite identical.  The trailing edge sweep is the same, with the Jaguar having slightly greater leading edge sweep.  The Jag has a greater wing span.  Note that in the pic it says 'one of the new wing proposals', so I guess there were several others.

Holy Thread Revival! 

Yes, another one from the back end of the forum. 

This time I would like to ask if anyone has ever done a check-fit of the old Fujimi T-2 kit with the Jaguar to see if it is a workable solution to create a two seat Jaguar from the parts?  Unless someone kits a two hole Jaguar there are not many other options in 1/48th scale. 

Don't Paragon Designs do a 2-seat conversion.  Their stuff is usually top-notch and there are some stunning 2 seat Jags on Britmodeller.

Yeap!  Looks nice:
http://www.hannants.co.uk/search/?FULL=PAR48095

[kitnut617]

Holy Thread Revival! 

Yes, another one from the back end of the forum. 

This time I would like to ask if anyone has ever done a check-fit of the old Fujimi T-2 kit with the Jaguar to see if it is a workable solution to create a two seat Jaguar from the parts?  Unless someone kits a two hole Jaguar there are not many other options in 1/48th scale. 

Don't Paragon Designs do a 2-seat conversion.  Their stuff is usually top-notch and there are some stunning 2 seat Jags on Britmodeller.

Jaguar 1/48 Parts by Paragon from the list Neil sent me when buying a bunch of his other parts:

48034 2 x Jaguar MB Mk.9 Seats                                      GBP 4.75
48035 Jaguar Afterburners, Chaff Dispensers, Cannon Bulges GBP 4.40
48036 Jaguar Flaps and Slats                                          GBP 5.50
48037 Jaguar Bulged Wheels                                           GBP 3.30
48038 Jaguar Vinten Recce Pod                                       GBP  TBA
48095 RAF Jaguar T2 Conversion                                     GBP 18.99

HTHs
Robert

[MAD]

THe Japanese actually wanted to buy the Jaguar outright, but the deal couldn't be cut (something to do with licence fees, IIRC), so an alternative arrangement was reached whereby they "designed" their own version of it. Hence the near total (but NOT total, please note) similarity.

How about a fighter Jaguar? Now stop laughing, the Jag with top-rated Adours has slightly MORE afterburning thrust than a Mirage F.1, and only 10 sq.ft. less wing area. Put the projected big wing on it, with six pylons plus tip rails, and a "Sea-Harrierized" nose with a raised cockpit & radar (Blue Fox?). It's never going to scare an F-16 any more than a Mirage F.1 is, but it'd work a treat against the hordes of heavily-laden MiG-27s/Su-17s/Su-24s expected to be heading West, not to mention the export sales....

It was much heavier than the F-1 and aerodynamics were crap. The Jaguar-M was uttershite, underpowered, despite the fact it was the only competitor to have reheat! No way you can change it into a decent naval interceptor. I take a F1M everyday, even more with the M53...

......But at the end of the day - the Jaguar-M would have been a far more capable and versatile combat aircraft than the Super Etendard IVM/P!!!!

M.A.D

[thedarkmaster]

can anyone point me in the right direction for information ( pref on line ) on the Naval Jaguar, I'm mostley interested in the arestor hook arrangements ?

Thanks in advance for anything you can help with.

TIM

[AeroplaneDriver]

Here is a video from the trials. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9TJuWLXIPc

At the end there is some footage showing the hook in action.  For my build I used the kit hinge point and hook end, but replaced the thin main body of the hook with thicker styrene rod.  As far as the external geometry of the hook though it seems the same as that installed on other Jags, just beefier.