BAE-Sepecat Jaguar, Mitsubushi F-1 and T-2

[Nigel Bunker]

Jaguars - the only planes that needed afterburners on to get from the pan to the runway.

Underpowered - I should say so  

Is there an engine of similar size to the Adour but with more power? Perhaps the F-404 or F-110 could be shoehorned in. Might give the old airframes a new lease of life in the same way Singapore A-4s were re-engined.

[John Howling Mouse]

"But how do you go about modeling that?
Its not like you can take an existing Jag surely?"

I'm planning on twinning the engines of a Starfighter while trying to retain as much of its original profile as possible, so I'm hoping such a modeling alteration can be performed.  

Would like to try supersizing and twinning a Skyhawk as well.

[Davey B]

RB.199 would be the only option for a Super-Jag -- and then fitting it in would probably be a bleedin' nightmare!

Hey, at least it's got the Adour -- could be worse, look at the Orao... :dum:  

[elmayerle]

Jaguars - the only planes that needed afterburners on to get from the pan to the runway.

Underpowered - I should say so  

Is there an engine of similar size to the Adour but with more power? Perhaps the F-404 or F-110 could be shoehorned in. Might give the old airframes a new lease of life in the same way Singapore A-4s were re-engined.

You might redesign it around a single F110, but otherwise that's way too big an engine to fit.  A F404 might fit, I'll have to check dimensions when I can and my best reference for that's at work.  One thought might be to apply the latest F414 tech to an updated J101 and use that.  There really aren't a lot of engines in the requiste size range that'd be suitable - at least as I consider things from memory.

[Archibald]

http://frenchnavy.free.fr/projects/jaguar/...concurrents.htm

In 1970, replacing the Etendard IV of the Aeronavale was urgent. That's why the following airplanes were tested.
The SE, Jaguar M, A-4 and A-7 were quite similar. But as you can see, there was also the Mirage F-1 (this subject has been explored in various topics, including PD7 superb profiles) and the Mirage G.
These were mach-2 fighters... aparently the Aeronavale wanted to replace the Etendards IV but also the Crusaders...
I try to imagine what would happen had the Aeronavale chosen the Mirage G... First batch with the TF-30 and R-530 AAM, second batch in 1981 with the M-53, Super 530 and RDM radar...  

[Archibald]

French Jaguar derivatives.

Breguet is not taken over by Dassault in 1967, and develop the Jaguar on the french side of the channel

Three level are defined after the AdA agree to name the two-seater Jaguar-B instead of Jaguar-E (B stand for Biplace AKA two-seater).

Jaguar C and D
Standard Jaguar fuselage and wing.
Jaguar C has more powerful Adour at 4300 kgp,
Jaguar D had Atar-8 unreheated with 5000 kgp each.
The latter needed a huge rebuild of its engine bays and air intakes.

Jaguar E, F, and G (Super Jaguar A)
The three share the same fuselage, based on the B two seater, with different engines.
Fuselage streched by 3m, and a small bomb bay.
Jaguar E with Atar 9K-50
Jaguar F with Turboméca M45 and
Jaguar G with J-101.
The Atar version need more fuel so the bomb bay is deleted, but it is more powerful.Wing span : 8.60m.

Jaguar H and J (also named super Jaguar F) are single seat interceptor (low cost alternative to the Mirage 2000, as the F-1E).
Jaguar H as a low-cost alternative to the Tornado ADV, with two RB-199 of 7300 kgp each.
The Jaguar J is an alternative to the Mirage 2000 with a M53-8 rated at 11800 kgp. Both had the same new wing as the E, F, G.

Jaguar K and L are naval versions of the Super Jaguar A and Super Jaguar F.

[Zen]

I'd guess the M45 option is rather attractive for the periode.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Has anyone ever performed a check-to (see if it really does)-fit of the old Fujimi T-2 kit with the Jaguar to see if it is a workable solution to create a two seat Jaguar from the parts?  Unless someone kits a two hole Jaguar there are not many other options in 1/48th scale.  If I am not mistaken the Fujimi T-2/F-1 kits were actually 1/50th scale models that were sold as 1/48th scale kits. 

[Damian2]

I've just eyeballed the two kits and I suppose you could lop the end off one and fudge it on the other. Its definitely in the class of JHM and Eddie M's talents...

[Weaver]

THe Japanese actually wanted to buy the Jaguar outright, but the deal couldn't be cut (something to do with licence fees, IIRC), so an alternative arrangement was reached whereby they "designed" their own version of it. Hence the near total (but NOT total, please note) similarity.

How about a fighter Jaguar? Now stop laughing, the Jag with top-rated Adours has slightly MORE afterburning thrust than a Mirage F.1, and only 10 sq.ft. less wing area. Put the projected big wing on it, with six pylons plus tip rails, and a "Sea-Harrierized" nose with a raised cockpit & radar (Blue Fox?). It's never going to scare an F-16 any more than a Mirage F.1 is, but it'd work a treat against the hordes of heavily-laden MiG-27s/Su-17s/Su-24s expected to be heading West, not to mention the export sales....

[retro_seventies]

Keep talking Weaver....

...now add an arrestor hook.

Would be just the ticket to replace the Crusaders on the Foch et Clem, non?   Peut-etre avec matra magics and a pair of super 530s.

Or Brazilian Navy?  Spanish Navy?  (i would say Royal Navy, but we'd need carriers).

That bigger wing and more grunt from the engines might just decrease the take off length too - would be better for dispersal basing of the Jags too.

[Mossie]

THe Japanese actually wanted to buy the Jaguar outright, but the deal couldn't be cut (something to do with licence fees, IIRC), so an alternative arrangement was reached whereby they "designed" their own version of it. Hence the near total (but NOT total, please note) similarity.

How about a fighter Jaguar? Now stop laughing, the Jag with top-rated Adours has slightly MORE afterburning thrust than a Mirage F.1, and only 10 sq.ft. less wing area. Put the projected big wing on it, with six pylons plus tip rails, and a "Sea-Harrierized" nose with a raised cockpit & radar (Blue Fox?). It's never going to scare an F-16 any more than a Mirage F.1 is, but it'd work a treat against the hordes of heavily-laden MiG-27s/Su-17s/Su-24s expected to be heading West, not to mention the export sales....

I remember reading a story about one of the RAF Jaguar Sqn Leaders saying that they were nearly bounced by a MiG-29 during the Gulf War.  He was kind of upset the threat didn't materialise, as he was very confident that he would have got a kill with the overwing Sidewinders.  It's always made me wonder wether it was over confidence, confidence in his training or confidence in his aircraft.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

I've just eyeballed the two kits and I suppose you could lop the end off one and fudge it on the other. Its definitely in the class of JHM and Eddie M's talents...

That was the conclusion that I had come to when looking at my own kits bits a while back.  Granted the Fujimi kits may well be 1/50th scale and not 1/48th scale but it would still be an interesting conversion and you get a single 20mm Vulcan cannon feature instead of the 30mm ADEN or DEFA guns normally associated with the Jaguar.  The gun port is almost the same size so you could claim it was a single 30mm ADEN or DEFA to keep a gun system with the aircraft.  Or go with the Vulcan idea as an upgrade for another variant. 

[Weaver]

Keep talking Weaver....

...now add an arrestor hook.

Would be just the ticket to replace the Crusaders on the Foch et Clem, non?   Peut-etre avec matra magics and a pair of super 530s.

Nah, not French enough for M.Dassault, and anyway, I've already sold them Vought-HSA Paladins on my Profiles thread.....

Seriously though, yes it would be good and like the Paladins, it could give them the advantage of a one-aircraft-type-ship (if they replaced the SEs as well) whose entire air group could swing from strike to fighter.

Or Brazilian Navy?  Spanish Navy?  (i would say Royal Navy, but we'd need carriers).

Well given that the Argentinian Navy found that they couldn't catapult the Super Etendard off the 25 de Mayo, I'd bet that you couldn't launch a Jag off the Minas Gerais either. Of course, once the Brazilians had the Sao Paulo they could buy it's air group too, assuming the French had enough Rafale Ms by then.

That bigger wing and more grunt from the engines might just decrease the take off length too - would be better for dispersal basing of the Jags too.

And would give them more pylons too: a classic Jag limitation.

[Mossie]

Real world Big Wing Jaguar proposal:



Quite a war load, extra pylon below the wings & tip rails too, as well as the overwing pylons.  I guess the overwing pylons could be freed up for other weapons or gas bags, in a similar way to the Saudi Lightnings.  Add the LERX & FBW from the Jaguar ACT & you would have quite a capable aircraft.