T-72, T-80, T-90, T-95 Black Eagle family of vehicles

[dy031101]

Recently I revisited the Enigma armour upgrade for the Iraqi T-55 and Type 59/69 (which sounded tough, being able to withstand multiple ATGM hits)...... and wondered if such an armour array would have improved the survivability of the T-72 as well.

The Enigma armours certainly looked the part though. 

[Jeffry Fontaine]

While researching another subject I found this odd looking T-72 derivative

(source page for the above image)

Link to the same image on a different web page

[Fulcrum]

T-72 with 140mm gun???!!! Where do you put the 2 crew members that were in the old turrent???

Very Interesting.

[dy031101]

T-72 with 140mm gun???!!! Where do you put the 2 crew members that were in the old turrent???

Somewhere below the turret ring maybe.

[B777LR]

T-72 with 140mm gun???!!! Where do you put the 2 crew members that were in the old turrent???

Very Interesting.

Funny, i thought the Germans were upgrading to 140mm on the Leo because the Russians are upgrading to 152mm...

[GTX]

Some real world T-72 proposals:






Regards,

Greg

[rickshaw]

T-72 with 140mm gun???!!! Where do you put the 2 crew members that were in the old turrent???

Very Interesting.

Funny, i thought the Germans were upgrading to 140mm on the Leo because the Russians are upgrading to 152mm...

No, NATO had planned to upgrade to 140mm in the gun/armour race during the Cold War.  The fear being of course that the WARPACT was going to go to even better armoured MBTs than the T-80 represented. As the 120mm gun was found to have problems penetrating the T-72 with conventional in use ammunition, it was felt that a larger calibre and higher MV weapon was needed.   The reason why they needed to go to 140mm was because of the need to have a high velocity and the only way that could be achieved in a reasonable length barrel was to increase the chamber and hence bore size to allow a great enough volume for propellant and its efficient burning.  This in turn, of course drove the need then for an autoloader, as the 140mm rounds were considered too large for most loaders to load efficiently and quickly enough over a sustained amount of time.   So, coupled with demographic problems in Western Europe (as the Baby-boom generation grew up), that drove the change to a smaller crew and as now, no longer were big, burly, strong men required to load the gun, women could be more easily employed.  This would then have allowed the armoured volume to be reduced (no six foot tall men loading the gun, standing beside it) and so the armour thickness could in turn be increased and so that in turn would have forced the WARPACT to a larger gun calibre of their own.  However, it should be noted that the loss of the loader from the vehicle would have require the supply train of the armoured units to actually increase in size as the extra crewman would still be required for day-to-day maintenance tasks and guard duty.

[Taiidantomcat]

That Infantry T-72 is fascinating. 

[dy031101]

It's kind of a shame that the IFV configuration appears to be practical only for the 125mm-gun-armed model with carousel autoloader.

The turret bustle of the 120mm-gun-armed model would likely block the infantry hatches......

[Geoff]

I seem to remember seeing something on utube about a prototype AFV designed as a support vehicle armed with a 35 mm auto cannon SAMs and ATGMs after experiance in Grozny. But I cannot remember which hull it was on - might have been a T-80.

[rickshaw]

That Infantry T-72 is fascinating. 

Rather pointless though.  The vehicle is intended to be an MBT, not an IFV.  Exactly what are the infantry meant to do?  Dismount over the top of the tank and then assault the enemy's position?  Three isn't a large enough number to be worthwhile.  Closed down in that sightless box, they'd be badly disoriented after some sharp maneauvring (you have no idea how bad it is in a normal APC/IFV, let alone an MBT) and not much use at all. They look to me like three more dead soldiers if/when the tank brews up.

[dy031101]

The vehicle is intended to be an MBT, not an IFV.  Exactly what are the infantry meant to do?

The Eastern-bloc MBT-based IFV concept was said to be born following the experience of Chechen Wars (where Russia's then-current lineup of IFVs and APCs were judged to be even more vulnerable to enemy anti-tank teams in urban combat scenarioes than MBTs).  The MBT-based IFVs are meant to be another type of tank escorts, the infantry being there to provide close-in protection to the MBT formations that the IFVs are a part of.

I wonder if the concept would also make good heavily-armed scouts though.

[ysi_maniac]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-80
Thinking in a T-80 hull with a western turret...

[dy031101]

I think I remember reading that the turret ring diametre of the T-80 is like 2500mm, so anything is possible after some re-engineering IMHO.  

[dy031101]

Is the turret of the Ukrainian T-72-120 project (which uses a bustle autoloader) to be a reconditioned old one with the autoloader refitted/welded/mounted/however-it's-added or a newly-built one with the autoloader already integrated?