Tiger, Panther, and King Tiger

dy031101 · January 31, 2009, 04:49:44 PM

Quote from: GTX on January 31, 2009, 02:40:11 PM
And finally a version with Schmalturn turret sporting 88mm Kw.K L/71 main gun + NVG +Anti-Aircraft cupola fitted with 30mm cannon:

The 30mm cannon looks short......

frank2056 · January 31, 2009, 05:29:16 PM

Greg,
I like the change to a conventional wheel suspension. It makes it look more modern. The wheels are still staggered, though, right? To keep the track on track, so to speak.

I may do that to the Panther F I have.

Frank

dy031101 · January 31, 2009, 05:47:23 PM

I was thinking...... what if I want to install a Leopard 1 turret? Do you think that the Panther's hull would do? Or should I really take one of the Tiger family (Tiger I/II)?

GTX · January 31, 2009, 09:04:09 PM

Quote from: dy031101 on January 31, 2009, 04:49:44 PM
Quote from: GTX on January 31, 2009, 02:40:11 PM
And finally a version with Schmalturn turret sporting 88mm Kw.K L/71 main gun + NVG +Anti-Aircraft cupola fitted with 30mm cannon:

The 30mm cannon looks short......

It's actually a Mk108 (same as Me-262) hence is fairly short - thi was actually a proposed Rheinmetall fitting (though not actually for the Panther) and would have carried some 600 - 700 rounds and have elevation from - 5 to +90.

Regards,

Greg

GTX · January 31, 2009, 09:08:33 PM

Quote from: frank2056 on January 31, 2009, 05:29:16 PM
The wheels are still staggered, though, right? To keep the track on track, so to speak.

I was thinking of an arrangement somewhat like the Patton or even Leopard I - i.e. two wheels side by side (though using standard Panther wheels):

regards,

Greg

GTX · January 31, 2009, 09:34:35 PM

Quote from: dy031101 on January 31, 2009, 05:47:23 PM
I was thinking...... what if I want to install a Leopard 1 turret? Do you think that the Panther's hull would do? Or should I really take one of the Tiger family (Tiger I/II)?

Not knowing the Leopard's turret ring diameter (anyone?) I cant really say.

Regards,

Greg

sagallacci · February 01, 2009, 10:46:23 AM

The simplified wheel arrangement would need different wheels, and possibly tracks, to work correctly, but not the worst idea out there. The Mk108 might have been considered, but would have made a poor choice in practice for a flak gun, being short ranged, slow cycle rate, and feed attitude sensitive. Using the Mg151/20 would make much more sense, or if you want to get more whiffy, the Mk213/20 with its faster cycle rate.

dy031101 · February 02, 2009, 11:14:50 AM

Quote from: GTX on January 31, 2009, 01:25:13 PM
One of the apparent problems encountered with the Panther's interleaved suspension was that it could freeze up in the Russian winter, so what if this was changed to something more conventional......

Quote from: sagallacci on February 01, 2009, 10:46:23 AM
The simplified wheel arrangement would need different wheels, and possibly tracks, to work correctly, but not the worst idea out there.

The French AMX-50 was based on Panthers and Tiger IIs and said to have adopted a slightly simplified suspension.

Wikipedia claims that the interleaved suspension was retained, just with smaller roadwheels, but the photo seems quite conventional to me......

Arc3371 · February 02, 2009, 11:30:18 AM

Edited due to hasty posting (ie being wrong), if you check www.chars-francais.net you see that the initial AMX-50 study had interleaved wheels

dy031101 · February 02, 2009, 11:49:52 AM

Actually, according to this set of pictures, the interleaved suspension is retained all the way to its definitive heavy tank form......

So I jumpped to the inaccurate conclusion earlier on as well......

Speaking of which, you reminded me the SOMUA SM......

This one sports a hull that looks even more similar to the German tanks than that of the AMX-50 and a non-interleaved suspension. It uses a set of much-smaller roadwheels.

Arc3371 · February 02, 2009, 11:50:39 AM

This is autotranslated since dont speak French "Three suspension systems were investigated: bar torsion, leaf springs, coil spring (spring systems can reduce the height of the tank 10 cm)."

What is interesting is that AMX-50/120 pictures with both interleaved and contional wheel arrangement

apophenia · February 02, 2009, 08:13:09 PM

Quote from: GTX on January 31, 2009, 09:34:35 PM
Not knowing the Leopard's turret ring diameter (anyone?) I cant really say.

220.2 cm for the Leopard C2/1A5. That's quite a bit bigger than turret ring diameters of a Panther (165 cm) or Tiger (185 cm).

dy031101 · February 02, 2009, 08:40:54 PM

Quote from: apophenia on February 02, 2009, 08:13:09 PM
220.2 cm for the Leopard C2/1A5. That's quite a bit bigger than turret ring diameters of a Panther (165 cm) or Tiger (185 cm).

Doh!

Need to find them another modern turret then...... can you suggest one based on the info you have?

GTX · February 12, 2009, 09:35:36 PM

Well it started out as a Tiger competitor, so what about a SPG variant of the Ferdinand?

This would have a fully revolving turret and 150mm main gun.

Regards,

Greg

jcf · February 12, 2009, 10:44:52 PM

Hi Greg,
the attached may help in figuring out your SP gun.

Jon