Lockheed 'Stars': F-80, TO-1, F-94, T-33 (TO-2, TV-2), T-1 (T2V), and F-90

[Mossie]

I'm not a fan of the P-80 family with the exception of the XF-90.  It's mainly down to the nose & intake arrangement, especially those with the cut-out scoop.  I can't give you any reason other than I just don't like how it looks forward of the wing, the blunt nose is ugly & the versions with the cut-out intake scoop make it look like it's had a stroke.  Otherwise I don't particulalry have anything against the machine.

The XF-90 changes most of what I don't like & this is quite a sexy machine.  Has anyone whiffed the Anigrand kit?

[kitnut617]

I've been trying to build a 1/72 Seastar as finding the vacuform kit of one is like trying to find hen's teeth.  I found that the mix-n-match approach might have been used to create this aircraft, T-33 nose with F-94 intakes, fuselage and wings.  The raised rear cockpit has been the most challenging part along with the tailpipe area though.

[jcf]

I'm not a fan of the P-80 family with the exception of the XF-90.  It's mainly down to the nose & intake arrangement, especially those with the cut-out scoop.  I can't give you any reason other than I just don't like how it looks forward of the wing, the blunt nose is ugly & the versions with the cut-out intake scoop make it look like it's had a stroke.  Otherwise I don't particulalry have anything against the machine.

The XF-90 changes most of what I don't like & this is quite a sexy machine.  Has anyone whiffed the Anigrand kit?

The Air Force gave Lockheed 180 days to deliver a prototype, so its no surprise the design was simple and straightforward and in the case of the nose shape borrowed from the known aerodynamics of the P-38. They came in at 178 days after being formally invited to tender a design, 143 days after award of the contract. 

To be pedantic the F-90 isn't actually part of the P-80 family, being a larger and later design with little in common aside from
the members of the Skunk Works engineering teams, nor did it receive a Star name.
One of the earliest configurations was for a delta-winged aircraft, wind tunnel testing revealed major drag problems and the layout was scrapped.

While I have the pedant pedal down, in aviation history circles the term 'Lockheed Stars' is generally understood to refer to the original Stars:
the Vega, Sirius, Altair and Orion.
Naming the P-80 the 'Shooting Star' was in line with Lockheed's return to astronomical/star related themes after a brief dabble with electric names;
Electra (later revisited on the L-188), Electra Junior, Super Electra, Lightning and Chain Lightning.

My favourite F-90s       :
http://ourworlds.topcities.com/blackhawk/models/mod_f90b.htm


http://ourworlds.topcities.com/blackhawk/models/mod_f90c.htm


Jon

[elmayerle]

I'm not a fan of the P-80 family with the exception of the XF-90.  It's mainly down to the nose & intake arrangement, especially those with the cut-out scoop.  I can't give you any reason other than I just don't like how it looks forward of the wing, the blunt nose is ugly & the versions with the cut-out intake scoop make it look like it's had a stroke.  Otherwise I don't particulalry have anything against the machine.

The XF-90 changes most of what I don't like & this is quite a sexy machine.  Has anyone whiffed the Anigrand kit?

So why not try and do a Skyfox-like conversion of a P-80 or single-seat T-33?  It's lots sleeker looking and, in 1/48, you can use Falcon 10 nacelles for the engines, just like the real Skyfox did.  This is not a joke, Grumman built the Falcon 10 nacelles and used the same contours for the Skyfox nacelles since Skyfox used the same engines (TFE731s).  The difficult part is that you'd have to scratchbuild both the nose from the break line forward and the new aft fuselage (conveniently enough, they used the breakpoint where you could remove the aft fuselage for engine changes).

[dy031101]

So why not try and do a Skyfox-like conversion of a P-80 or single-seat T-33?  It's lots sleeker looking and, in 1/48, you can use Falcon 10 nacelles for the engines, just like the real Skyfox did.

I was thinking...... Skyfox-like conversion for F-94?  While it's obviously no longer useful as a fighter, the rocket batteries might lend themselves well to ground attack missions......

But then of course, F-94 was never exported......

(I'm even trying to imagine the same thing happening to F-89, but it would be off-topic.)

[Mossie]

Jon, I can understand it's 'asthetically challenged' looks if it was rushed in that quick, but I don't know, for some reason I can't grow to love the P-80!  Love those Blackhawks F-90's though, always something good about comic strips brought to life.

Evan, I'd forgotten about the Skyfox.  That's one aircraft I have always liked, it's no secret that I'm a fan of light CAS types.  A single seat Skyfox might fit that light fighter niche that the Hawk 200 never quite managed to fully exploit.  I can't see myself doing a conversion, but I tried a little while back to petition Arnold at Anigrand to release a Scaled Composites ARES (he said he had no plans but might consider it in the future).  If he ever does I might also nudge him on a Skyfox, the two would compliment each other.

[ysi_maniac]

Re-engining the F-90?  For the timeframe, I'd probably go with a J65/Sapphire with afterburner as the most suitable choice.  J57 is considerably larger and heavier (albeit more adaptable) and likely wouldn't be a good fit.  Allow some room for growth and you could later replace teh J65 with a J79.

Just to be sure:
One or two J65?
One or two J79?

BTW: Last night I read something about a proposal to reengine F-90 with J53 (I assume, the non nuclear version ). Any one knows ?

[GTX]

How about a missile version of the F-80 or similar?  Not one carrying missiles, but a variant turned into a missile - a bit like how the Raduga KS-1 Komet (AS-1 "Kennel") was derived from the MiG-15:




Regards,

Greg

[Archibald]

Now that's an idea ! An alternative to the RASCAL missile, to be carried by B-47 and B-36 ?

[elmayerle]

Hmm, I seem to remember that Lockheed did look into drone F-80 variants, but my reference material is back home.  Still, it wouldn't be that difficult to do, especially if you used the longer T-33 fuselage to make sure you had room for the necessary avionics.

[jcf]

QF-80A-LO: Modified F-80A, 3 constructed, first flight 8 December,1946 - delivered in June and July, 1947
QF-80C-LO: Modified surplus F-80C, some used for radioactive fallout sampling during atmospheric nuclear tests.
QF-80F-LO: QF-80A/QF-80C with improved radio control equipment and runway arrester hook.
QT-33A: ex-USAF T-33s modified in the late seventies as target drones for the USN.

The KS-1 is not derived from the MiG-15 so much as its original layout was conceived as reduced size version of the Aircraft S (MiG-15) airframe layout as a risk reduction measure. The projects are somewhat comtemporary, with the missile project beginning in late 1947. The KS-1 is quite a bit smaller than the MiG-15(span-4.722m, length-8.29m vs. span-10.085m, length-10.102m) and as the project proceeded its shape rapidly deviated from the S like baseline.

Jon

[jcf]

Lockheed CL-352

Seastar derived project for an air-defense interceptor to be carried by the new CVS (anti-submarine) class small carriers.

Jon

[dy031101]

Lockheed CL-352

Seastar derived project for an air-defense interceptor to be carried by the new CVS (anti-submarine) class small carriers.

Adding a Skyfox-like conversion to this one...... um...... fascinating. 

[Jschmus]

I've got an idea for banging out something quick for the "Trainers with Teeth" build.  I'd like to make something similar to the Skyfox, but do it as a single-engine project.  I'm having trouble coming up with a suitable engine, something that would crank up the available thrust, while improving fuel economy, loiter time and payload.  The real world AT-33 could carry 2000 pounds on two pylons, with the 5000 pound J33.  I'd also like to lose the tip tanks if it's at all feasible. 

[rallymodeller]

Let's not forhget that the Canadian Silver Star variants were the most powerful of the original P-80/T-33 aircraft, being reengined with Nenes. Indeed, their performance with the Rolls powerplant was close to the first-generation Sabres. How about a straight outgrowth F-80 with a Nene?