the FAIL guns

[PanzerWulff]

Just dont try firing a M-14 offhand on full auto the muzzle climb is a bit extreme 
"Panzer"

[Shasper]

Wouldnt think of it mate, actually my dream setup is a M21 with a red-dot sight (kinda like the one seen in BHD)

Shas

[dragon]

Firearms aficionados have had a saying for quite a while:
"Looks good, shoots good".

I can't think of anything that violated the principle. 

[Maverick]

I can think of a few that look snappy but are poo-poo (with an english accent).

Lee Enfield Mk 5 'Jungle Carbine' - a kick like a wounded bull

Earlier Colt Carbines (XM-177, etc) - muzzle flash required a 4 inch flash supressor (which sorta defeated the purpose of shortening the barrel in the first place and the ballistics of the round never reached full potential coming out of the 10in barrel.

SA-80 (initial production) - looked Space-Age but needed HK to fix it.

There's more but you get the drift.

Regards,

Mav

[Jeffry Fontaine]

I remember reading about a bullpup pistol the US Airforce had designed for them by Colt for use by aircrew; I think it was called the Firestorm, and it layer along the inside of the forearm, with only about 3" of muzzle showing ahead of the pistol grip, so it had to be aimed like a pistol!

Not sure where you got the name 'Firestorm' from for the weapon you are describing is the IMP weapon that was based on the function and operating principles of the patented IMP aircrew survival weapon designed at the United States Air Force Armament Laboratory at Eglin Air Force Base (as far as I know IMP does not refer to any specific acronym).  Subsequent design changes integrated the characteristics of the Colt M16 with AK-47 operating system; thus attaining the simplicity and functionality of what eventually became the Bushmaster arm pistol.   This bullpup was chambered for the .221" Remington Fireball cartridge.  The Air Force never got on board with the weapon and probably wisely so since the last thing you want is downed aircrew playing shoot out at the OK corral with the bad guys.  The design eventually went on to be modified a bit further and was chambered for the 5.56mm/.223" Remington cartridge and manufactured for sale under the name of 'Bushmaster' by Gwinn Firearms. 



I actually owned and operated a Bushmaster pistol for several years and it pretty much looked just like the weapon in this image.  There was a very small see-through quick point type sight mounted to the left side of the receiver toward the butt end of the weapon. 

It was certainly a very unique looking weapon and a great way to impress the locals but in reality it was a useless piece of $hit.  The Bushmaster was a great way to burn up ammunition in cycles of thirty to forty rounds, after that the weapon became too hot to handle thanks to the small size of the weapon and limited surface area the heat dissipation was confined to the receiver and the very short barrel which was situated directly above your firing hand so when the weapon got hot it had to be put down to cool off.  Obviously this was not a good thing for a firearm that was intended for arming downed aircrew where the weapons size, weight, and ammunition consumption would play a very critical factor.

When firing the weapon the muzzle blast and fireball were horrendous since they were so close to the person firing the weapon, not a good thing at night if you are trying to see your target after taking a few shots.  I sought out an after market flash suppressor that was about three inches longer than the standard suppressor that was mounted on the muzzle of the weapon, it was not much different in appearance from the Bushmaster in this next image.



While it certainly increased the coolness factor and appearance of the weapon it did little else but move the ball of flame further away from me which did help some.  The bullpup design of the Bushmaster provided virtually no recoil and the gas piston actuating rod design made the weapon easy to maintain and clean.  With the exception of the actuating rod on the bolt the Bushmaster had the same internal components in the lower receiver as the Colt AR-15 right down to the same fire-safe selector switch but it could rotate all the way round so if I had wanted to obtain a full-auto sear, it would have been very easy to install.  I digress, the bullpup design is great for the look factor, cool as hell but it was useless without any sight augmentation such as a laser or quick-point sight which would have to be mounted on the side of the receiver which is awkward when it comes to aimed fire and limits the weapon to a specific right hand hold so any left hand shooters would be left to pray and spray instead of aimed fire.  The Bushmaster would have been ideal for a firefight in a phone booth but at anything over 25 meters, you were in deep doo doo. 

Earlier Colt Carbines (XM-177, etc) - muzzle flash required a 4 inch flash supressor (which sorta defeated the purpose of shortening the barrel in the first place and the ballistics of the round never reached full potential coming out of the 10in barrel.

There was an additional purpose for that long flash suppressor on the XM-177.  It also served as a sound suppressor.  Unlike the standard flash suppressor this piece was designed with several internal ribs that were visible from the muzzle end of the weapon, I can attest to this since I had the opportunity to inspect one of these weapons in 1977 at Fort Lewis, Washington thanks to the Ranger Battalion and their pressing need for some intelligence people to support them.  The long suppressor on my Bushmaster pistol was pretty much the same dimensions but did not have the internal ribbed features of the XM-177 suppressor unit.  The BATF had some input on the disposal of the weapons when they were finally removed from service to prevent civilian consumption with the suppressor feature attached to the weapon. 

Eventually I traded my Bushmaster off for something equally as impressive but much shinier, a Smith & Wesson Model 629 in .44" Magnum sporting an 8 3/8" barrel  

[Aircav]

The idea of the arm gum was to give downed pilots something with a better range (100yards) than a standard handgun that could be stowed in the ejector seat and fired with one hand in a survival situation. The 4 inch suppressor on the XM-177 was proved to not work and a standard flashhider off a M-16 was found to work an awful lot better but as with the Bushmaster pistol, if you try and fire standard rifle ball ammunition out of a shorter barrel than it was designed for then a lot of the power will burn outside the barrel as its just no long enough, 20 inch on the M-16 and 12 inch on the XM-177, one way of doing it would be to handload your ammunition and use pistol type powder which burns at a faster rate and will cut down the blast a lot but you are still trying to fire a rifle cartridge out of a pistol lenght barrel.

[Wyrmshadow]

Bullpups have a certain sci-fi coolness about them but I've never tried to handle one so I don't have an informed opinion on their operation. I can only imagine that its a bit uncomfortable and not a natural movement to reload.

I got a message saying I would be Perm-banned from that other forum if I did not remove those images from that other forum.... so naturall I'm sharing them everywhere I can.
Like Here

Btw.. I really like the M-14 mod.

[Aircav]

I've handled and shot the AUG and the SA80 and the AUG is a let better, SA80 is very butt heavy.

[Aircav]

Steam Punked Stens 
http://www.longmountain.com/movieguns/LXG

[jcf]

I think there is only 1 gun that is not ugly, the AK-47, and all of its predecesors, variants, relatives, etc. 

Pretty much all guns post @1890 are ugly. 

Jon

[Wyrmshadow]

Congradulate me because I just got banned from that other forum. I take it personally when I get called names, then get punished by the moderators for being called names and standing up for myself. In order for forum rules to be any good, they must be just and be applied equaly, not whenever you feel like it or not if it would make your friends unhappy. And threats do NOT work on me. Oh well. Good riddance. I stopped getting any enjoyment from that place a long time ago. Be sure to share those pictures and have a good laugh at a jerk's expense.

[Aircav]

Their loss

[sotoolslinger]

Wyrmy..... ef them
Bullpups, while cool,  generally have balance issues.Carbines mostly need to be in lesser calibers to make up for their lack of weight.
The  jungle carbine in .303 kicks so bad due mostly to the horrendous ,hard rubber, narrow butt pad.Slip a big soft  aftermarket pad on it and it becomes somewhat more managable. It is the best combat bolt action ever and in a handy size. The biggest problem it had was the lightening cuts made on the receiver which cause a wandering zero. If you take a standard smelly and fake one up they are excellent.

[cthulhu77]

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://derisasybesos.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/hello_kitty_ak47_1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://derisasybesos.wordpress.com/2008/05/28/los-diez-minutos-de-odio/&h=270&w=600&sz=114&tbnid=A30kb1sg-d4J::&tbnh=61&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhello%2Bkitty%2Bak%2B47&hl=en&usg=__Uih_e-EryJ_MzihDmGb-QCXRsvA=&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=4&ct=image&cd=1

[Taiidantomcat]

I thought this was what john was talking about with "firestorm" Think i saw this PDW on military infomercial...er im sorry "future weapons." Invite former Navy SEAL to shoot new gun, Navy SEAL loves it, waxes poetic for another 10 minutes. I like that show but this was one of those segments that seemed extremely transparent.

I had heard the whole PDW thing had gone by the wayside after the Jessica Lynch disaster, and the US military decided it needed MORE firepower for its support troops, not less. I think it has fallen further out of favor as the war on terror continues, "whiz-bang" weapons are falling by the wayside for something that actually works. Not a bad idea for police, they don't go into battle everyday most never have to use their weapons their entire careers.

Thanks for posting those pics Jeff i was definitely "off"