WWI Era Armor - Real and WHIF

[kitnut617]

Way back in the 60's/70's I used to go to Bovington quite a lot, it being only 20 miles from my parents place in Poole.  I'm very sure there was something like that on display next to the British Male (or Female) WW.I tank and it was supposed to have been a captured one after it had broken down on the battle field.  Back then you could clamber inside it or partially get in and then look through a perspex cubicle set just inside the door to view the interior.

[NARSES2]

Firstly thanks for fixing the link Jeff (I thought I'd tested it   )

Kitnut as far as I know the only guenuine A7V in the world is in Austrlalia. They may well have had a mock up at Bovington, it's a long time since I've been.  It will be interesting to see how they built this in the November issue of MIS

[kitnut617]

Kitnut as far as I know the only guenuine A7V in the world is in Austrlalia. They may well have had a mock up at Bovington, it's a long time since I've been.  It will be interesting to see how they built this in the November issue of MIS

Is there another German WW.I tank that looks like a A7V then, because there definitely was a square looking tank which you could get inside and see all the equipment.

[NARSES2]

Not that I'm aware of, They do have "Little Willie" which is very box like but you cant get in and around it.

I've looked on line and can't see anything that looks like what you describe but things will have changed over time and for certain anniversaries things can be opened up.

[kitnut617]

Not that I'm aware of, They do have "Little Willie" which is very box like but you cant get in and around it.

I've looked on line and can't see anything that looks like what you describe but things will have changed over time and for certain anniversaries things can be opened up.

That rings a bell, I think you've nailed it Narses

EDIT:  No that wasn't it, just had a look at it, I can definitely remember something that looked like the A7V

[rickshaw]

Firstly thanks for fixing the link Jeff (I thought I'd tested it   )

Kitnut as far as I know the only guenuine A7V in the world is in Austrlalia. They may well have had a mock up at Bovington, it's a long time since I've been.  It will be interesting to see how they built this in the November issue of MIS

The Germans paid for the restoration of Mephisto the sole remaining A7V in Brisbane, about a decade ago.  Part of the deal was for them to be allowed to measure it comprehensively in order to build a replica.  I understand that's been done but not sure which Museum now houses it in Germany.

[kitnut617]

Kitnut as far as I know the only guenuine A7V in the world is in Austrlalia. They may well have had a mock up at Bovington, it's a long time since I've been.  It will be interesting to see how they built this in the November issue of MIS

The Germans paid for the restoration of Mephisto the sole remaining A7V in Brisbane, about a decade ago.  Part of the deal was for them to be allowed to measure it comprehensively in order to build a replica.  I understand that's been done but not sure which Museum now houses it in Germany.

Well I'm really puzzled now, I'm sure I've seen something like it, maybe not an A7V but definitely big and square.  I wrote to the Bovington Museum to see if they had had anything like it but the reply was no.

This is the reply from th curator:

Robert,

There has never been an A7V here at the Museum. I am not sure which vehicle you might have been looking at – Little Willie is small and box shaped but as far as I am aware has never been opened to the public. We have a number of WW1 vehicles that have been opened – the Mk IX for example. There is one real A7V remaining (in Brisbane, Australia) and a good replica at the PanzerMuseum in Munster, Germany.



The new replica was made by Bob Grundy and was displayed here at our Tankfest Event in June this year. If you want to see images of it moving (and lots of other vehicles here) tap in A7V or Tankfest onto You Tube and there are plenty of clips.



Sorry we can't help with the memory more...!



David Willey   

curator

[raafif]

was there a British Mk.IV (or Whippet ?) painted with German crosses at Bovvy ? -- captured by the Germans & re-captured back -- can't think of anything else it could have been.


The A7V "Mephisto" has not been restored -- the roof is still damaged & internally she is a mess -- she broke-down & was used as a static pillbox by both sides, later an artillery shell went thru the roof when abandoned in no-man's land -- when the fighting deminished she was towed-out at night during a gas-attack by a Queensland unit of the Aussies -- most of the interior was then stripped out -- all the swivelling seat/MG mounts, fuel-tank, one radiator, steering wheel etc.

For years it sat outside the old Queensland Museum in Brisbane.  In 1970 it had a car-port roof built over it & in 1971 it was externally sand-blasted (removing the WW1 camouflage & large artwork of a Lion that was put there by the capturing forces) and repainted where it stood.  In 1986 it was moved to the new museum & placed in the open front entrance, still exposed to the elements & only protected from above by the projecting concrete porch.

In the mid-1990's the Germans demanded it back, saying "if you won't look after it properly, we will".  It then had a new paint-job, dummy MG barrels added & moved round to the side of the museum where the dinosaur exhibit is viewable thru a window from outside, and a glass extension of this window was built to enclose the A7V against the museum building.  You can now see it from outside with the dinosaurs behind it !!  The Germans may have contributed to the cost but wouldn't have been charged for measuring it.

The Australian War Memorial is still secretly fighting to get it moved to Canberra as it was supposed to go there in 1919 but was unloaded from the ship in Brisbane (first port stopped at) for some reason & (as a Queensland unit had captured her) the locals thought it was for them as there was no proper addressing information on it.

The "A7V" in Germany was built on a Durrkopp ammunition tractor chassis -- just like the originals were -- the MAFVA repro is on something modern so it can be driven.


Approximately 8 A7Vs survived the war with 4 (or 5) given to Poland to fight the Red Russians ; they last saw action between August & September 1920 and were still in service as late as 1926.  England & France scrapped their examples very quickly & the Aberdeen Proving Ground cut "Nixe II" up for scrap in 1942.
The main gun from "Schnuck" is in the Imperial War Museum in England & the PanzerMuseum in Germany has a restored example of the Tracked Ammunition Carrier that formed the basis for the A7V design.  The German Police used a light-armoured female "A7V style" vehicle, called "Heidi", (turrets at the front corners & projecting MG "bays" on the sides at rear) built on the Ammo-carrier chassis for anti-riot duties in Berlin, 1919.

[Pete A]

Hi to all,
           I hope you enjoy the link.

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2008/06/road-to-hell.htm

Regards

Pete A

[dy031101]

I've been kinda meaning to ask about this ever since the asthetics of Command & Conquer series computer games stirred up the ideas.

For a country that needed an indigenous tank design but had no experience building or maintaining anything other than tractors or obsolete tanks (as in the likes of FT-17 and tankettes, if taking a WWII point of view), would it have been possible to merge, say, two chassis of such vehicles in tandem to support a hull that can accommodate a bigger turret (and, by extension, weapons)?

[raafif]

There were several articulated designs drawn or tried in early WW1 -- Crompton, Pedrail "Articulateur", linked Bullock Tractors and some Big-Wheel designs that were articulated.  Only the "linked Bullocks" was actually built but the articulated joint kept breaking so the idea was dropped.

Would make some great whif models tho (doing some drawings to start with).

[dy031101]

Articulated scheme would be too complicated.  I'm aiming for something like the enclosed pic (note the first tank in the column, which shows the tread arrangement of the Rhino tank in the Red Alert 2).

[jcf]

I've been kinda meaning to ask about this ever since the asthetics of Command & Conquer series computer games stirred up the ideas.

For a country that needed an indigenous tank design but had no experience building or maintaining anything other than tractors or obsolete tanks (as in the likes of FT-17 and tankettes, if taking a WWII point of view), would it have been possible to merge, say, two chassis of such vehicles in tandem to support a hull that can accommodate a bigger turret (and, by extension, weapons)?

Question: How are you going to drive or synchronize the drive of two separate track-laying systems?

One of the main technical hurdles of tank design was creating a reliable transmission that could absorb and transfer the necessary engine power without destroying itself. Because of the mechanical realities combining more than one 'Chassis' (which most tanks don't actually have BTW) isn't really a simpler solution.

[tahsin]

Aahh , then you say the one below would never be made to work , even by the WW2 Germany   ?

[jcf]

Aahh , then you say the one below would never be made to work , even by the WW2 Germany   ?

The motive system is the least of that monstrosity's problems.