P-36 Hawk, Model 75, Mohawk, P-37, P-40 Warhawk, Tomahawk, and Kittyhawk, & P-42

[Archibald]

What about a P-40 with Spitfire wing ? kind of desperate atempt by Curtiss to improve performances...

Btw a P-40Q qith Spitfire wing would look cool, too.

[jcf]

Pyro, I agree on the cannon replacing two of the .50s per wing too.  Never quite understood the USAAF's attitude to cannon vs MGs regardless of how much lead Ma Deuce can throw.

Regards,

Mav

On page 282 of Curtiss Fighter Aircraft 1917-1948: A Photographic History by Francis H. Dean and Dan Hagedorn the authors relate the following in the section on the P-40D after discussing the armament and armour changes/additions:
"Additionally, a July 1942 Army document states that the aircraft had provision for on 20mm cannon in each wing as well, although this option was apparently never exercised."

All of the 'Interceptor' projects for the Army from the late 30s, built and unbuilt, featured cannon armament in 20mm and/or 37mm calibers.
The P-40, P-47, P-51 etc were 'Pursuits' thus they had an armament of MGs.

Jon

[SSgt Baloo]

I don't build models but I did whip this up in case anyone's interested:



ETA the backstory:

The XP-40-J was constructed as a quick-and-dirty way to test Tex Jones' jet turbine engine. His claims of superior performance over propeller-driven planes prompted Curtiss to offer him an airframe for modification. The resulting aircraft had superior speed and ceiling to the P-40 it was made from, but had slightly less range, though this was eventually offset by fitting external fuel tanks. The ability to group all six machine guns in the nose was another benefit of this configuration.

The pilot's position was moved forward to partially offset the rearward weight bias caused by replacing a nose-mounted engine with an (admittedly lighter) tail-mounted installation. The horizontal stabilizer was raised to keep it from being masked by the wing at high angles of attack, especially on the take-off roll. The tailpipe was also angled downwards by 4 degrees to help offset the aircraft's tendency to keep it's tail "planted" during takeoff rolls.

The XP-40-J was successful enough that it entered production as the P-46. The external tanks were moved to the wingtips, freeing the wing stations for ordnance.

[Dork the kit slayer]

I did do the plastic version, shots & backstory here.
http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,20343.0/highlight,p-40+floatplane.html

Im sure one of our group has made this. I cant remember who? but Im sure I saw an unpainted version at the AGM.

If I didnt...............well................I should have.

[Mossie]

Yeah, that was me Dork, I took it to the AGM before last, un-painted, or possibly partially painted.  It was originally going to wear a USN atlantic scheme with Brazillian Navy roundels.  Procastination kicked in & when I picked it up again a year later I couldn't find any enthusiasm for the scheme I'd started earlier & hit it with the Power Spray.  It then got the temperate sea scheme it's now in, it made it to this years AGM & Telford (if late on Sunday).

Although I'm not particulary fond of it because of the troubles it gave me, people say it looks 'right' so it'll probably make it to future shows, so you'll probably see it in the flesh at some stage.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

There is a new entry on ARC built by Yoyoal of a P-40E in Russian markings.  What makes this interesting is he used the "Griffon Models" Klimov conversion so there are obvious differences in exhaust and [smaller] propeller from a standard P-40E model.  


Wikipedia page on the P-36 Hawk, Model 75, Mohawk, XP-37,and  XP-42,
Wikipedia page on the P-40 Warhawk, Tomahawk, and Kittyhawk

[redstar72]

There is a new entry on ARC built by Yoyoal of a P-40E in Russian markings.  

And here is another model of the same subject. It is built my Mikhail Neradkov, a Russian modeler from St.Petersburg:
http://www.dishmodels.ru/gshow.htm?p=4934

What about smaller propeller - it was Russian VISh-61P.
This kind of P-40 isn't a "Whif", about 40 machines were "refitted" in this way. Most of they served in 196th IAP (Fighter Air Regiment) over Ladoga, Leningrad front.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

There is a new entry on ARC built by Yoyoal of a P-40E in Russian markings. 

And here is another model of the same subject. It is built my Mikhail Neradkov, a Russian modeler from St.Petersburg:
http://www.dishmodels.ru/gshow.htm?p=4934

What about smaller propeller - it was Russian VISh-61P.
This kind of P-40 isn't a "Whif", about 40 machines were "refitted" in this way. Most of they served in 196th IAP (Fighter Air Regiment) over Ladoga, Leningrad front.

Just a point of clarification.  This section of the forums does not always focus on What-If.  This is a place to discuss ideas and share information on model building with other members so it will be a mixture of WHIF as well as real world. 

The point I was making by sharing the original ARC link to the VVS P-40E was that it was not a standard out of the box model and it took some effort to build something different that is not normally encountered in real life or WHIF here on these forums. 

What I appreciate about the Russian conversion of the Curtiss airframe is that the Klimov engine and propeller fit without much issue into the confines of the engine compartment and can pass without too much scrutiny for a standard P-40E aircraft until you start to notice that the engine exhaust ports are not the familiar Allison exhaust stubs and the propeller and spinner occupy less space at the front of the aircraft and without having a stock P-40E parked next to the modified aircraft you would not notice the difference. 

Suggestion: why not expand the scope of this thread to cover the earlier radial-engined monoplane Hawks, i.e. the P-36, Hawk 75 etc....? After all, the limitations of the later Various Hawks largely stemmed from the fact that they were an evolution of the earlier ones rather than a clean-sheet-of-paper design like their competitors.

Suggestion taken under advisement and the discussion has now been expanded to include the Curtiss P-36 Hawk, Model 75, Mohawk, XP-37, P-40 Warhawk, Tomahawk, and Kittyhawk, and XP-42 since these designs were all so closely related.  

Joe Baugher's American Military Aircraft Page
Joe Baugher's page on the history of the Curtiss P-36, Hawk 75, and Mohawk
Joe Baugher's page on the history of the Curtiss P-40 Warhawk, Tomahawk, Kittyhawk

So how about a P-36 Hawk or Mohawk with a spinner and propeller from a P-40?  Don't recall seeing any Hawks with a spinner so that would be a nice subtle WHIF.

[Weaver]

Cheers Jeff - like the spinner idea. 

How about exported and re-engined ones? Polish Hawk 75 with their licence-built Mercury, for example. Or how about Hungarian/Romanian exports, bought with US engines but then, with supplies cut off due to the war, re-engined with BMWs or Gnome Rhones?

[dy031101]

The ROCAF initiated the development of "Experimental Pursuit-plane #0" (XP-0) in 1941.  The XP-0 is based on P-36 and did in fact on the prototypes make extensive use of spare parts of Hawk 75 either held in storage or recovered from derelict airframes.  It was, however, adopted to indigenous manufacturing techniques of China, the fuselage and wings being made largely of woods.

The first prototype was completed in 1943 but crashed on landing after the maiden flight (which revealed everything as working normally except for a higher landing speed).  Two improved examples were built in the following year, and two more in 1945, but the end of WWII also ended further development.

Specifications and Projected Performance:

Wingspan: 11.20m
Length: 8.74m
Height: 2.82m
Empty Weight: 2000kg
Maximum Takeoff Weight: 2850kg
Maximum Speed: 450km/hr
Service Ceiling: 9000m
Range: 1840km
Powerplant: P&W R-1830-S1C-G x 1 Twin Wasp air-cooled radial piston engine, 1200hp
Armament: 12.7mm MG x 1, 7.62mm MG x 1
Crew: 1

There are claims that the aircraft was also to be used in ground attack with a hardpoint under the fuselage and dive brakes.

[Weaver]

According to the Joe Baugher links Jeff provided, the RAF were semi-serious about the P-36: suppose they'd bought it early (instead of inheriting French ones) and modified it to suite their ideas? Fuselage guns deleted and 6/8 x .303s in the wings? Malcom Hood a la Mustang?

Speaking of hoods, how about a bubble-top P-36? It'd look kinda like a 1/2 scale P-47D.....

[jcf]

So how about a P-36 Hawk or Mohawk with a spinner and propeller from a P-40?  Don't recall seeing any Hawks with a spinner so that would be a nice subtle WHIF.

In its various incarnations the XP-42 was spinner equipped at various times:

This photo is from the all-moving horizontal tail test series.

Jon

[Weaver]

Way-hey, Apo does it again! 

Nice one - cheers! 

[famvburg]

     I think a little bigger than 1/2 scale, maybe 80% or 90% scale........

According to the Joe Baugher links Jeff provided, the RAF were semi-serious about the P-36: suppose they'd bought it early (instead of inheriting French ones) and modified it to suite their ideas? Fuselage guns deleted and 6/8 x .303s in the wings? Malcom Hood a la Mustang?

Speaking of hoods, how about a bubble-top P-36? It'd look kinda like a 1/2 scale P-47D.....

[Arc3371]

I like those re-engined Hawks